Please let it go.

You can PM John and Stephen privately if you have additional thoughts that you haven't already expressed publicly.

As someone else once pointed out about you, Alex, you certainly get a lot of mileage out of your assumptions.

How many times have you voted in this "scientific" process, Alex?

Could you possibly clarify just who I have "abused"? I wasn't the one who called you a thief. I called you unethical - which you're kind of proving to be even more true. I called you a childish brat. Which you're definitely proving to be true. Just how old are you, Alex? Are you just mad that I told you to stop making up crap as you go along?

Agreed Elk- and this pissing match between Alex and Jan is at best tedious and boring, and at worst doing a great job of filling in for DUPs negativity while he's away.

One or both of you need to take the higher ground and let it go- for GOOD! And more importantly, for the good of the Forum, which you both claim to care about. I'm beginning to wonder...

Uh, guys! Who started this thread and who called me abusive? It's not like I was kicking Alex under the table. I'm perfectly willing to back off and let things go. I told Alex exactly that in a thread a week ago. I'm sorry to say Alex seems to want to keep picking at a scab he feels needs to be opened. Yeah, I feel like I've got dup jr. following me around.

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So far, the polls reflect my assumptions. 50% want DUP to stay suspended and 50% either want DUP to come back or have you suspended right along side of him.

Let's check those numbers:

At 5:45 pm Pacific time...

Let DUP come back to the forums: 1 (8%)

Let DUP come back and suspend Jan Vigne for being abusive: 2 (15%)

Let DUP stay suspended. He got what he deserved: 8 (62%)

Be consistent in application of policy and suspend Jan Vigne right along side DUP: 2 (15%)

So, 77% support the decision to ban DUP.

15% favor trading Jan for DUP.

15% would put Jan in pergutory with DUP.

Where does your evenly divided evaluation come in?

The best I could massage out of this pitifully small sample size would be 62% favor no DUP, and 30% are split between favoring no Jan or are clumping Jan into the same banishment status as DUP. I worry what the numbers would be for me, or even you! Personally, I find this poll kind of offensive. Not offensive like "To Girls, One Cup." More like, "That guy has a personal vendetta he is trying to foist on the world, that's offensive."

We've had 13 votes out of 7000 members. That makes for a 0.18% voter turnout. (Hardly a quorum, and I am suspicious of "voting irregularities.")

At 84 views, even then the percentage of voter turnout is 15.5%. And that does not account for repeat viewings by the same people. I would wager that amounts to only 13 unique viewers, at most!

I say, "Don't ban Jan!"

I know you have a boner for Jan right now, Alex, but your back and forth with him has made for great reading, and has probably stimulated much thought amongst the readers here. I'd be happy to get to hang with either of you!

I'm hoping that there will soon be a topic upon which you both agree and we will see some crazy synergy!

Bottom line: I used this thread purely for the purpose of making a "Two Girls, One Cup" joke.

I like you both, next round is on me.

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At 84 views, even then the percentage of voter turnout is 15.5%. And that does not account for repeat viewings by the same people.

Ergo, at least 85% of those who have looked have the good sense to ignore this thread. Now there's the good news.

How many times have you checked back, Alex? That should bump the percentage up to about 97% ignore.

Come on, Alex. Either let this "boner" go or explain just who I abused and how. If you're standing up for dup, don't you think dup can do that for himself? He knows how to respond in a PM to Stephen and John. So just why are you doing this? Just what is your problem with me?

This is beyond stupid. Alex is having an obvious issue with the DUP temp ban and is acting out badly... I thought the 10 odd replies in the original thread was already *way* over board!

This thread doesn't even deserve existence in the Dead Zone! It should be made to go puff.

--

For my part I voted and must admit that I now feel like an idiot for having done so, like a kindergarden flashback... UGH!

Actually one could interpret the results as evenly divided. The only one option that is for DUP's suspension stands at 8 votes.
The other categories do not favor a DUP only ban and total 7 . So there seems to be a fairly even distribution at this point.
The poll probably shoud have ben limited to :

1) do you agree with the ban on DUP

2) do you disagree with the ban on DUP.

I would be interested in the results of such a pole simply out of curiosity to see how many people were actually bothered by DUP.

I also disagree with the calls to end this thread . Lets allow those who wish to discuss this topic do so and those that don't wish to participate can simply ignore this thread. Wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? ( except, of course, DUP ) :-)

HE'S BEEN WITH THE WORLD
AND I'M TIRED OF THE SOUP DU JOUR
HE'S BEEN WITH THE WORLD
I WANNA END THIS PROPHYLACTIC TOUR
AFRAID NOBODY AROUND HERE
UNDERSTANDS MY POTATO
GUESS I'M ONLY A SPUDBOY
LOOKING FOR A REAL TOMATO
WE'RE THE SMART PATROL
NOWHERE TO GO
SUBURBAN ROBOTS THAT MONITOR REALITY
COMMON STOCK
WE WORK AROUND THE CLOCK
WE SHOVE THE POLES IN THE HOLES

(Are We Not Men?)

PITY YOU
YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM
A NERVOUS SORT OF CONTRACTION
A MINDLESS KIND OF REACTION
YOU NEVER GET NO SATISFACTION
HERE'S TO YOU
I KNOW YOU REALLY GOT A PROBLEM
A NASTY KIND OF REFLECTION
A DANGEROUS SORT OF DESTRUCTION
THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT
MAKES IT HARD TO REACH
TAKES IT ALL AWAY
FROM WHAT YOU HAD IN MIND
YEAH YEAH YEAH
A NERVOUS KIND OF DISTRACTION
A NASTY SORT OF CONTRACTION
BUT THERE'S SOME BIG FAT POINT
THAT YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING
AND IT'S DRIVING YOU TO DESTRUCTION
BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM
TO STOP YOU IN THE LEAST
OR HALT THIS OBSESSION GOT YOU
GOING ON BACK
WEEK AFTER WEEK
DAY AFTER DAY
HOUR AFTER HOUR
FROM WHERE YOU CAME
FOR MORE OF THE SAME

(We Are Devo!)

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If you're standing up for dup, don't you think dup can do that for himself?

No, he can't. He got banned! He has no voice. The best he can do is come back for 5 minutes as PUD.

OH NO , Alex, you let out DUP's secret identity!

How could you?

Quote:
I think the cat's been out of that bag for a while That cat came out of the bag, made a splash and was put right back in the bag. Then again, it could have been Jan impersonating DUP coming back under a false id. Given that Jan is a contrarian, it's only fitting that he would name his creation "PUD".

Conspiracy theories, how delightful :=)

It warms the xmas cockles of my heart to imagine Jan impersonating DUP, holding up in a room somewhere, madly typing teh, teh, teh an infinite number of times.

Isn't funny that a thread about DUP appears to be quite a bit like a DUP post, i.e. a lot of hot air without any substance to back it up.

I personally do not like the fact that there is a ban on anyone who has not openly abused forum policy but rather a ban on someone who just states (repeatedly and with no supporting arguments) ideas which are not in conformance with some of the commonly held beliefs of many forum members.

Sure, DUP's repeated posts droning on and on and over and over about the same pet peeves are very annoying (to say the least) but at the very least DUP does seem to care about the sound of his audio system. Based on the information I have gathered from his many posts DUP appears to have spent considerable time and money in assembling his audio system, whether or not one would like the sound of that system.

Besides that DUP addresses many issues and expresses opinions about high end audio that many of us may even secretly agree with (in part at least). For example, DUP's endless obsession with wire. Sure it's very tiring to read over and over again but past a certain point (and that point varies from person to person) doesn't the high cost cable/wire far outweigh the benefits.

I also can understand one of DUP's other obsessions, namely the fact that many of the proponents of the more outrageous claims within high end community constantly hide behind the simple (and as yet unchallenged) statement that science can't explain everything and if it sounds better (yet another unproven statement) it must be better (and therefore worth tons of money).

All in all, I'd say that while DUP is more often than not extremely annoying as far as I can tell DUP doesn't appear to have openly violated any of the really major forum rules - so why the ban?

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If you're standing up for dup, don't you think dup can do that for himself?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, he can't. He got banned! He has no voice. The best he can do is come back for 5 minutes as PUD.

Another fact to ignore, Alex?

News flash to Alex; email. dup had his opportunity to "defend" himself on this forum after his first ban. He chose not to do so. Now it is between dup, Stephen and John. The case has been explained to you a dozen times, Alex. You are once again in your "I want what I want" mode and ignoring everything that says that ain't gonna happen. What part of "90 day ban" are you not understanding now?

Stephen and John made the decision after dup made his. If you have a problem with this decision, you should be adressing this to Stephen and John in personal messages instead of this endless moaning on the forum. dup is gone, Alex, get over it.

Jan,

It appears that , once again, you want to censor someone.

Anyone has the right to question the DUP ban and they have the right to do this as often as they like.

If you don't like that kind of post why don't you just not read it?

One has to wonder if you have some control issues to work through.

Jeff,

Great cartoon :-)

So you will beat this into the ground, eh? Isn't that part of the "abuse" you accused me of committing?

By the way, you never did answer just who I supposedly abused and how. Since you have such a keen interest in keeping up with this thread, how about an explanation now? I'm very interested in why there is no category in your poll to suggest I had nothing to do with dup's ban.

Quote:
Jan,

It appears that , once again, you want to censor someone.

Oh, give it up! I was made a part of this thing because of Alex's problems. This forum spends more time discussing dup than we do audio. You have to wonder just what a newcomer is going to think when they come across this crap. It has been suggested that most audiophiles have no interest in the personal bickering of most forum members. I think that's a reasonable assumption. I told Alex I would have no reason to consider anything that happened in one thread to carry to another. Alex doesn't seem to agree with that concept. If Alex wants me banned, he should go through the correct channels. I told Alex that also. It's another thing Alex seems to not pay attention to. This is full blown "I want what I want" on Alex's part.

Just look at this page on the main index. There's nothing about audio being discussed. It's all back and forth about dup.

dup is banned. Get over it.

All this also happened shortly after dup's first ban. We spent a week discussing dup and then we settled down to the business of this forum. More good discussions occurred in those three weeks than any time before or since. It would be nice to return to the business of the forum. It would be nice to have newcomers stay for awhile instead of getting turned off by this BS.

Quote:

BUT THERE'S SOME BIG FAT POINT
THAT YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING
AND IT'S DRIVING YOU TO DESTRUCTION
BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM
TO STOP YOU IN THE LEAST
OR HALT THIS OBSESSION GOT YOU
GOING ON BACK
WEEK AFTER WEEK
DAY AFTER DAY
HOUR AFTER HOUR
FROM WHERE YOU CAME
FOR MORE OF THE SAME

(We Are Devo!)

WHIP IT! WHIP IT GOOD!

Jan,

One way for this to die, for you at least, would be to simply stop responding to posts about DUP.

I hope you realize I am not calling for your ban. But some of your responses to DUP were abusive. I personally don't have a problem with that but I don't have a problem with DUP either.

Why not live and let live with respect to calling for someone's ban.

With respect to ranting, rant away. It's Xmas time after all, we need some good rants :-)

Bah, Humbug.

Quote:
All this also happened shortly after dup's first ban. We spent a week discussing dup and then we settled down to the business of this forum. More good discussions occurred in those three weeks than any time before or since.

This is your opinion, which your certainly entitled to express as much as you like, however I suspect not the opinion of all members of this forum, some of which are more outspoken than others.

If I recall correctly, which I probably don't since I'm older now :-)...during that period one of our members managed to PO a couple of our long time contributors and an active newcomer to the point of them leaving this forum...forever! The haughty blather continues to spew from time to time. By the end of the ban period the forum was stagnate and did not liven up again till someone proclaimed...HONEY, I"M HOME!

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It would be nice to return to the business of the forum. It would be nice to have newcomers stay for awhile instead of getting turned off by this BS.

Indeed it would, but as long as you continue, you are part of the BS.

RG

Quote:
Indeed it would, but as long as you continue, you are part of the BS.

Now there's some George Bush logic.

teh little old ladies got good ears. They got watts galore. no flea 20th century amps. Teh ladies know kung-fu, gonna kick someone around teh room with BIG WATT kicks.

(ACTUAL SIZE)

Quote:
Jeff,

Great cartoon :-)

Yes.

But it should be banned.

Quote:

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Jeff,

Great cartoon :-)

Yes.

But it should be banned.

You should be banned for saying that.

I should not be banned because I am merely pointing out the inappropriateness of your comment.

I think Jan should be banned because you posted that.

Stop it!!!!!!

I can't breathe . . . .

Rayban

Wow. I missed all the fun. DUP has become Mr. Hyde, again.

I don't think he should be banned.

His biggest problem (in terms of his published persona) is that he always manages to insult most of his audience. He is merely insulting, in writing.

I, personally, think he is a paragon, and ideal embodiment, of how not to behave in public. Now, I have been there, too, and it's kind of fun. You know. Getting everybody all pissed off and mooning everybody within projectile range. But, like all poses, it gets boring after a few go-'rounds, and you move on to better clothes.

I like DUP. He is an idiot in print (I have NO idea what he is like in person...). He has the subtlety and wit of a Cape Buffalo with a hard-on. He is fun to laugh at. We need more laughing, God knows...

And, according to his written self, his ears were reamed with a Craftsman power drill shortly after birth. So, what's not to like? Keep 'em coming, DUP -- you're my favorite punching bag. A deaf-ty-dumpster with 10 thumbs trying to communicate the subtleties of audio enjoyment. Love ya, guy!