Buddha
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Kind of funny: Woody Allen calls for Roman Polanski to be freed. Bros into underage Ho's, I guess.
linden518
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Remember that thread about someone's personal life clouding your opinion of an artist's work? Well, Woody creeps me out so bad I haven't been able to appreciate (or even watch) his movies since the Soon Yi molestation.


Actually, it helps me see all of Woody's work as metafiction, finally makes sense.

pbarach
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I'm sure Roman would try to fall back on the "I didn't know any of those hundreds of preteen girls were underage" defense.

Too late for that feebnle excuse. He pled guilty.

JIMV
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Like Congress...pervs of a feather flock together.

dbowker
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After I read Mia Farrow's autobio and the dirt on Woody, I have not paid to see any of his movies. In fact I rarely will watch it on TV even.

linden518
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I still watch Woody, and like his films. Oh well. Lord Byron shagged his sister but it doesn't stop me from reading his poetry. Many of the genius composers/artists/scientists/philosophers were execrable human beings. So what? Great works of art convey a truth that transcends our miserable human lives (most of us believe that, otherwise, we wouldn't even be in this forum) and this includes the miserable lives of the creators as well. I'm not going to cast the first stone, y'all.

Monty
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Is there something you would like to get off your chest, Selfdivider?

linden518
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Nope, just that I'd rather be less judgmental of the works by very flawed people. I'm well aware other people choose not to separate the work from the personal lives of the creator.

dbowker
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As an artist and flawed human being, I am aware of not being the first to cast the stone. But on the other hand, just because you make art is not a blanket excuse for bad behavior. In fact I think many creator types use their position for just that- a big excuse. Woody is alive today, not a century ago, and supporting his films supports his current comforts and vices.

linden518
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I think Woody's a puerile and infantile jackass and a sappy product of the psychoanalyst era as much as the next person. But what to do when I find Zelig or Manhattan or Annie Hall or even his recent flicks really well done? Aren't those feelings genuine? Yup. But is my support and genuine liking of his work a support of his "comforts and vices" as you say? Of course not. I get where you're coming from but that's a haphazard and illogical formulation.

A great work of art is that, a work of art. Nothing more or less than that. Of course the elements of the creator's life goes into the work, and if you can't disentangle the artist's work from his/her life itself, I can see how that might turn someone off, however. That doesn't happen with me with certain artists (W. Allen, Byron, as mentioned, etc.) but happens with some others (L. Riefenstahl - umm, work of art as Nazi propaganda? No thanks.)

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(L. Riefenstahl - umm, work of art as Nazi propaganda? No thanks.)

Triumph des Willens is a great piece of work. Of course the message is evil, but as a curiosity..great.

Der Untergang is also great.

linden518
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They're made with a tremendous amount of skill, no doubt about that. Purely from a technical perspective there's a lot to admire and to learn from (if you're a filmmaker). Yet I can't separate the material content from the technical achievement in those works. In general, I can never buy into a work of art - film, a piece of music, a book - if I find myself not taking in the work as a whole.

KBK
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Yes.

I mean, take Ayn Rand.

Please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll play the foil here to bring it back up to speed on the original topic, but don't read anything into it, OK? I'm turning the chessboard around so it can be looked at from a different angle. Anyone with a ounce of honesty in them could say this:

As for the whole 13 year old thing, if you think genetics and history combined with realities of the past, the 13yr thing vs the 18yr or 16yr thing is clearly a sociological and cultural thing and has zero to do with the realities of genetics and overall biological design.

As an example, of cultural things, reaching for the food with my leftie hand in backwoods India... or putting my feet up on the desk with my office door open in the middle east. Both are pretty serious offenses, but not even noticed as being anything at all in western society.

13 years old is a serious biological imperative and is far more likely to be enacted than anyone cares to admit. That western society has at this time in it's history decided it is not to be, well, that's culture and socialogical norms of the given time.

Essentially, the push for it in the mind as created by the realities of human existence, propagation, and survival of the species is there-in spades. That indeed is an unavoidable fact. For the very larger part of it, the idea that 13 years old is untouchable is very much a modern western society artifact. This is very very recent, for history is full of the opposite, in all places and ways in the past. That may come as a shock to some - but it is a fact.

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Roman, before you bone a 13 year old, check the local laws, eh?

I'm sure Roman would try to fall back on the "I didn't know any of those hundreds of preteen girls were underage" defense.

Yuck.

And Woody, thanks for signalling your continued lack of insight.

Remember that thread about someone's personal life clouding your opinion of an artist's work? Well, Woody creeps me out so bad I haven't been able to appreciate (or even watch) his movies since the Soon Yi molestation.

You're preaching to the choir, Buddha. What is going through these people's heads? Do they not take their own inventory before opening their big fat nobody give shit what they think mouths? Roman fucked a 13 year old girl up the ass, drugged her, got her drunk, took pictures of her, and ran away to escape justice. He's an animal and I want the brothers to get a crack at his own ass. Roman is a perfect example of zealot liberalism taking the position of total support for the torturer and complete contempt for the victim. The fact that she is a grown woman now and doesn't want this at this time in her life is beyond her power. The law is the law and nihilism has no place in the defense of the rapist or the rationalization that there is no longer a victim.

ncdrawl
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the most disturbing film I have seen in a very long while==

ANTICHRIST.

Lars Von Trier at the helm(self professed best director in the world at Cannes)

loosely based it seems on the Nietzche essay "GUILT" .(von Trier says he kept a copy of Nietzche's "Antichrist" on his bedside table since age 12)

...anyway.. the film is stunning as far as cinematography, soundtrack..ie visually..

but, ethically/morally... it is FUCKED.

wont give it away...but if you want to be shocked and awed...watch it.

Lamont Sanford
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I wonder if KBK has read or studied Nietzsche?

KBK
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Only enough to run away from it.

Where logic and 'humanity' collide is always an interesting juxtaposition. Some might say that the whole thing is wrapped up in that very (for most people) wobbly point.

As for Dude's behavior, I've no idea, I never read up on the subject.

I also fail to see the need to find myself distracted from the real problems of the world to focus on the location of a given single man's penis. it's a purposeful game of distraction to keep you from focusing on the real issues.

Brad and Jen are getting back together!!!

Just like it always is. Hypnotize and distract the masses with some crap they can be falsely lead to believe is somehow -important, some garbage to latch onto. Same shit-different day. The real point is that few can understand the level -the sheer energy and effort, the level of involvement- that is put into distracting the masses.

Buddha
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Speaking of peccadillos, Letterman sure blew a great chance for immortality.

He could have mentioned that when Gov. Sanford compared himself to King David, he really meant David Letterman!

Letterman could have made the announcement from a Minneapolis Men's Room Stall set up and then had Bubba and Newt share the Top Ten honors...

Top Ten Reasons for Publically Admitting to Infidelity:

10) Bill: It really gets under Hillary's skin.

9) Newt: People will find out anyway, so by preempting the left wing conspiracy you won't have screwed your opportunity to be your party's nominee later on!

8) Bill: It makes you appear Kennedy-esque!

7) Newt: Four words: Fat Fox News contract.

6) Bill: It lets all the other ladies know you're available.

5) Newt: It makes you seem more Presidential.

4) Bill: When you walk into the cigar bar, all the guys great you with fist bumps and say, "Duuuude!"

3) Newt: It tells future wife number four not to expect as much as wife numbers one through three did - If we learned anything from Shrub, it's that we should try to lower expectations if we want to be perceived as successful.

2) Bill: BJ's in the Oval Office, how can a fellow NOT want to brag?

1) Newt: It's the only way anyone would ever believe a 22 year old coed would do me!

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What a waste of time and resources. the case against him is poisoned by corruption of the original "trial," the sheer age of the case, and the fact that the victim has no interest in prosecuting. I guess in the end He will be able to come to the U.S. and England whenever he wants to.

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Recent news indicates that the allegations of corruption in the original trial, which were made only by a now-retired D.A., have been retracted. Thus, there was no "poison." The D.A. now says he lied when he told a documentary film-maker that he'd persuaded the trial judge to disregard the plea bargain. Also, whether or not the victim wants to prosecute is irrelevant: the State prosecutes, not the victim; and Polanski pled guilty to RAPE, not to "having sex with a minor." So the "age of the case" is irrelevant because the issue of guilt was settled when Polanski pled guilty and fled. Finally, a judge is well within his/her rights not to abide by the terms of a plea bargain--sentencing is up to the judge and is never fixed by a plea bargain. Whether or not Polanski made good movies is irrelevant to the act of rape he committed and pled guilty to. So Polanski was incarcerated for a total of 42 days for a competency to stand trial evaluation (which, by the way, does not count when computing a prison sentence if someone is convicted) for a first-degree felony against a minor that he drugged before raping her.

Buddha
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Quote:
Recent news indicates that the allegations of corruption in the original trial, which were made only by a now-retired D.A., have been retracted. Thus, there was no "poison." The D.A. now says he lied when he told a documentary film-maker that he'd persuaded the trial judge to disregard the plea bargain. Also, whether or not the victim wants to prosecute is irrelevant: the State prosecutes, not the victim; and Polanski pled guilty to RAPE, not to "having sex with a minor." So the "age of the case" is irrelevant because the issue of guilt was settled when Polanski pled guilty and fled. Finally, a judge is well within his/her rights not to abide by the terms of a plea bargain--sentencing is up to the judge and is never fixed by a plea bargain. Whether or not Polanski made good movies is irrelevant to the act of rape he committed and pled guilty to. So Polanski was incarcerated for a total of 42 days for a competency to stand trial evaluation (which, by the way, does not count when computing a prison sentence if someone is convicted) for a first-degree felony against a minor that he drugged before raping her.

The Hollywood position:

13 year old girl + alcohol provided by a man in his 40's + an illegally acquired drug given to the same girl + the girl saying, "No." + oral, anal, and vaginal penetration + acknowledging guilt + fleeing a sentence = a Whoopie Goldberg endorsement because it doesn't fit the description of 'rape rape.'

How about we use the money we saved by not putting Dick Cheney in prison and apply it to Roman spending some time in the slammer?

Dad's out there: If this happened to your 13 year old daughter, what would you want to happen?

Would you settle for a check and say 'bygones?'

____________________

I guess if we take the cultural relativism approach, we should note that she's actually lucky she didn't get stoned to death for having had sex with Roman or have her genitals mutilated, her feet bound, her neck stretched, etc.

Scott Wheeler
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We shall see. Polanski's lawyers have already filed for dismissal based on the alleged corruption. The motion will be ruled on January 21st. I'm betting it ends right there.

KBK
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http://www.theprovince.com/story_print.html?id=2014450&sponsor=

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Quote:
I'll play the foil here to bring it back up to speed on the original topic, but don't read anything into it, OK? I'm turning the chessboard around so it can be looked at from a different angle. Anyone with a ounce of honesty in them could say this: ...

KBK, I suppose your observation is essentially that biology neither obey the laws made by man, nor does it care. It's futile to enact a law, for example, that tells people to stop breathing. The natural response is to self-preserve and all the body systems act to survive, regardless of what laws are enacted by any legislative group. All the efforts focused one man by any society is a very small subset of all those physical 'laws' that no one can circumvent.

If the people directly involved in this case are still interested in legal justice, let them go ahead.

Is Roman worth all this attention? Do we all need to be involved? IMHO, no. Do we all have other issues that are more important, perhaps vital, that need our attention? IMHO, definitely.

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Dad's out there: If this happened to your 13 year old daughter, what would you want to happen?

Would you settle for a check and say 'bygones?'

If this had been either of my daughters, id be in jail, because as sure as I am sitting here, id kill the bastard myself. without hesitation.

linden518
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Quote:

Quote:

Dad's out there: If this happened to your 13 year old daughter, what would you want to happen?

Would you settle for a check and say 'bygones?'

If this had been either of my daughters, id be in jail, because as sure as I am sitting here, id kill the bastard myself. without hesitation.


I'd go medieval on Polanski's ass, too, but that misses the point once again. The fact that he used to be and/or still is a depraved asshole doesn't change the fact that "Chinatown" was a great fucking movie, one of the best in the American cinematic history.

KBK
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http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2009-10-16/17302/Judge_Dreadful_killer_a_hero

A dad who shot dead a judge and a senior politician because they molested his three-year old daughter has become a national hero after going on the run in Lithuania.

Horrified Drasius Keyds, 37, gunned down the perverted pair on Monday after police turned a deaf ear to his pleas for justice for his tortured tot.

Now in hiding, Keyds has become a hero on YouTube and Facebook with hundreds of thousands of fans from all over the world pledging support.

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