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November 23, 2009 - 9:59am
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Keep up the good work, Art
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I've tried both directions, over time with varying degrees of success, but right now, It's a integrated class A line amp for me. One that I completely rebuilt. This means *one* audio cable from a given source...and *one* speaker cable going to a passively crossed over 2-way speaker.
Less is more. It is also rockin' and very revealing.
No muss-no fuss.
Get on with the music, thank you very much.
I may design cables as best I can, but that does not mean I think we all need a bunch of them in each system. Less cables (that the given signal may be required to pass through) is always a good thing when it comes to audio quality.
My business partner has gone the 'other way'. Three way high powered tri-amped. What does this mean?
It means source to preamp (one cable) preamp to first crossover (two cables) first crossover to second crossover (three cables), second crossover to the given amplifier (four cables), and then to the given speaker cable for that driver (five cables).
That's a lot of stuff between the listener and the original signal. Each time you remove something, you get closer to the original signal, which is what really drives your enjoyment of the music. Never forget that - each time your monkey wants shiny toys and big monoliths to pray in front of. My partner understands and knows all of this very well, but his 'big rig' gives him tons of fun, but he's going to put one of his tubed integrateds back on line and do the same as I have.
Which will be the kind of system he will get to use each and every day...as the other one is big and onerous and takes too much to get it fired up and running right. Too many controls, too many variables - too many potential problems.
as for perspective, I turn on my integrated when I get up, I listen all day and turn it off before I go to sleep at night. The big rig my partner has? It gets turned on once a week - if he is lucky. simple systems are far more accessible, besides the capacity to be of decent quality as there are fewer parts, and this simplicity will bring far greater rewards when money is poured on/at it's limited # of components.
Well, I'm not a Stereophile reader, but I'd say what Mr. Art wrote sounds about right to me as well. "First": About 15 or 20 years ago, after reading a book on the subject, I joined a movement called the "Voluntary Simplicity" movement. I was probably not the best at it, but ever since, if not before, I maintained simple needs, and do not want for anything today. In fact, I've plugged out of the matrix, about as much as someone existing in a large urban centre can. So I'm not into conspicuous consumption, and have little tolerance for advertising. They certainly haven't invented the ad that will work on me, anyway.
"Second": I don't agree with Art that the idea of the single listening chair does more to hold back the hobby than anything else. I don't see many people saying "I would get into quality audio.... if it weren't for those damn chairs!". The reason younger generations aren't getting into quality audio as much, isn't because of lounge chairs. It's because they've been effectively brainwashed by the likes of Apple, and other consumer electronic organizations (ie Sony), who "control the remote" (mainstream media). They've lured them into believing things about sound that aren't true, but made true by popular vote (just like religion). It's not a particularly new story, but what I see as being different this time, is that there are generations growing up to whom an LP is an alien object from a distant planet, and simply a novelty item. Well, guess what, so is "good sound" a novelty item to this group, who know nothing else but the convenience factors they've been fed on and sold on. Aided and abetted by "the new audiophile", who when asked about good sound, thinks the more speakers you have, the better your sound will be. Because: "it's logercal! Everybuddy knowz that!".
On the flipside, there aren't enough voices out there to drown out the misguided messages being broadcast by the mainstream, leading people into worse sound than we've ever had before, and calling it "progress". To make matters not better, the popular music many of these younger generations have been told is "cool" to listen to, seems to only come in just two basic "flavors": shit, and shit warmed over. Which as you might guess, sound a lot like each other. But in the interest of consistency I suppose, it is music recorded at a quality that is perfectly compatible with the standard of "shit". And so would probably sound worse at the high rez of high end audio.
That said, as much as it would be cool to have nothing but an egg chair in the room, and while I recognize there may be real benefits to that, I do agree that some compromises have to be made to accomodate real life. So I have a "special listening couch". Nothing prevents anyone from sitting in the middle of it. There is no such thing as a perfect room or system anyway, and it's silly to think a chair is going to change that.
"Third": I can't say I have heard more differences between analogue and digital. For I have never confused the two. Analogue replay has its limitations, but gets some important things right that I've never heard digital do. What digital struggles to do, analogue does effortlessly, it seems. But there's also a vice versa to that, so it depends on what's important to you, as a listener. So while my take on LP v CD hasn't really changed at all since over twenty years when I started doing many comparison tests on same pressings of CD and LP, I -do- find myself getting better at hearing more musical differences as time goes by. But these are differences in more and more minute things; pencils, paper, rock, scissors, lemons.... hetcetera hetcetera. In more recent months, I've grown better at not just hearing differences, but -feeling- differences that relate to improvements in sound. I'm sure that's something Art hasn't experienced yet! Even so, both my experiences and Art's, are a natural part of evolving. Whether it's becoming more adept at picking up differences as you gain experience, or no longer having that natural motivation to acquire things, you once had in your youth, and seeing the benefits of not doing that so much, or being less focused on one's self and more attuned to others around them. It's all part of the same ball game. The game of life.
This post brougt to you by Milton Bradley. (reg. tm.)
I think you're missing the point of Art's statement. It's not about the single-person chairs but what those chairs represent: an exclusive and lonesome un-activity, a whole bunch of not fun.
I like what Art said and belive that often we get too caught up in the gear rather than enjoying either what we have, or just enjoying a great piece of music.
Families watch TV together, but usually, some members acquiese to what others want to watch. This is what parents with young children do, but it does give them time WITH their younger children. Someone is compromising.
No other person in my family will really watch football or baseball with me, as they do not care for sports. They didn't play the games like I did so I understand it. My wife will stay in the room, but be totally engrossed in the internet. They sporadically acquiese to me, but I do it occasionally for my wife and will join her for some of her shows for the company I provide. She is always asking me if I am going to my "man cave"? Usually I will just let them them have the big TV and go downstairs and listen to music. How most people lost their love of real music played well is beyond me.
Yet, I have ceased to ask her to down to my main listening room and share a moment with me as she does not share my musical tastes at all. She bought me the Diana Krall Christmas album and wants me to play it "just down stairs". Neither she nor I need more Christmas music as we have 4 plastic totes full of stuff.
I was making 4 batches of hard molasses cookies last night. She turns on the 5 disc carousel in the living room system and filled it with Christmas CDs and turned it on. She would periodically come check on my progress and eat one or more cookies (LOL). Once a "House" rerun came on my son asked if I could turn it down as it was interfering with their TV watching. I informed him that his mother was the who turned it on, not me, and yes he could turn it down or off. My gosh, it was a rerun, except we audiophiles are listening to "reruns" all the time. Score one for the TV viewers. He did take my Grado SR 60's for his MP3 use as they "sound so amazing". Really! Geez.
We audiophiles will always be a lonely lot. No one cares about music like we do to make it a solemn activity. We can get lost in every note and buy into the spacial cues the recording and our gear provides. We don't need sensory overload that TV provides, as simplicity is fine for us. We also demand that it be more than a waveradio, we strive to make it the best it can be.
I have two dedicated rooms for listening to music now, my main room is a smaller 12 x 12 space, the other 14 x 17 that also doubles for watching some movies. My wife and son did not even care for the 5.1 that was in their TV room. I have since removed it and they use the swell TV speakers and are quite content. Go figure. I'm keeping the "man-cave".
That does clarify it a bit further, but I think I did get the gist of what Art was saying, and was agreeing with him on it. I referred to this when I wrote " I do agree that some compromises have to be made to accomodate real life." By this, I was referring to the idea that there are other people in your life to accomodate, for which you will need to share your listening position, and that it isn't practical to just have this one ideal position for your ears alone. Hence the concept of the "special listening couch", to replace the egg chair. But I wasn't in agreement that the SLC (special listening chair) was the big factor in preventing younger generations from getting into high res audio.
I just asked a friend who has a teenage daughter (around 17), why so little of the younger generations seem to value high fidelity. Her daughter subscribes to "Cool!" magazine, so is very much "plugged into the matrix" as I put it. Recently, her daughter came by with her Apple iPod, and my friend tried to show her the higher fidelity alternative, by demonstrating the sound of her iPod with her Sennheiser PX100 headphones, in place of the cheap bud earphones the daughter was used to. Well her daughter did at least realize the sound was better, but nevertheless, spent the weekend listening to her iPod with the cheap bud phones, when she could have used the Senns. When I asked why, her mother explained her opinion thusly: her daughter -identifies- with the Apple style earphones. She "feels" better using and wearing something she better identifies with. Thus, she values the identity of the crappy canal earphones that she has been taught to identify with, more than she values any benefits that might be derived from higher fidelity sound.
All I can say to that is, "God help us all".
(Or, for the atheists in the crowd, "Flying Spaghetti Monster, come to our aid").
That makes perfect sense to me. Honestly, I don't blame the girl. If all of my friends were listening to music through earbuds, I would probably listen to my music through earbuds, too. It's what I would feel comfortable with. For the most part, people just want to fit in and feel like they belong, don't you think?
On the other hand, if I had a genuinely cool older brother or sister, some sort of role model who could relate to me and who treated me like an important person, and was into hi-fi (rather than just any adult figure who was telling me that my stuff could be better), I'd probably have a much greater appreciation for hi-fi, too. It's like anything else.
Represent what???? A whole bunch of not fun????
Sure I like to have a vinyl session with my friends (2 in the last 2 years) when I'm lucky enough to get one and I did get my teenage daughter to listen with me for an hour...first time ever!
If we don't have fun on our own with our music and systems we will be a sad and lonely bunch because there are precious few opportunities to share the experience in a meaningful way. If we see (and thereby portray) our hobby as a "lonesome un-activity" what chance does anyone else have of sharing/understanding the excitement of finding that new band or sound that will transfix us until the wee hours of the morning? It
Yes, "a whole bunch of not fun," alternately known as "taking ourselves too seriously."
Man, two? In the last two years? And you have a teen daughter who you've only listened to music with once. Am I reading this right? If I'm reading this right, you're proving my point, Peter. You say "when you're lucky enough to have one," which makes it seem as if you wish you could listen to music with your friends more often. I'm sorry; I don't understand. What is stopping you?
Good points, Peter. I do agree that most of the times, the kind of communal listening we want to do is logistically impossible. I usually come home around midnight on weeknights from work. My little girls are asleep by then and my wife is too tired from her day's work. And it's a treat to slink down into my basement where I keep my system (away from two toddler girls' inquisitive fingers) and put on the Roy Eldridge or something before hitting the sack. And have you tried to listen to Charles Ives with a four year old? Impossible.
So while I agree with Art in a sense that, yes, this solitary male listener in the geeked out mancave is detrimental to the hobby, the reality is, there is just no other way to listen, 90+ percent of the times.
But I think Art's point is that we should nevertheless make the hi-fi a collective experience, even if reality precludes us from listening with them all the time. I think it's a worthwhile venture, sharing your beloved music with the ones you love. It doesn't really have to be some extravagant listening session with your best friends. The other night, my wife actually asked me to go downstairs to listen to music, and accompanied me with some laundry... listened to Monteverdi while we both folded clothes, 1 AM-deep in the night.
It was very nice.
When people are listening with me about the only communication I want with them is to tell them to STFU.
Sometimes it is nice to listen with others that actually want to listen to music...........this does preclude most audiophiles, however.
When I say "listen" to music I mean that it becomes the focal point of the activity in the same way that it does when you listen to live music. Of course I have music playing when friends come around and we often talk about the music. I play my daughter's ipod through my system and we listen and talk about the singles (hardly ever about the bands). The single event I am referring to is when my daughter listened to my turntable and became inquisitive in an audiophile sense. The invitation to do this has always been there and this was the first time she has taken me up on it...she now has a turntable (donated by a friend along with his LP's) in her room. My son has never shown any interest in doing this (though he's jealous of his sister's tt) in spite of just as many invitations.
Stephen, I am a social and gregarious individual who happens to be an audiophile. I have a great many friends who are fanatical about music but only one who is an audiophile. I think we are a fairly rare breed compared to the number of music lovers in this world.
This statement makes me sad especially from someone who has an opportunity to influence. If you are all of these things please get help. I'm hoping that you are really none of these things but that you are a little in denial as to how much of an individual hobby we indulge in. I distinguish here between being a music lover and an audiophile.
I hope that I manage something of that too excepting that my wife is tone deaf and normally asks me to turn it down even at low listening levels. She does not hold any musical interest beyond occasional background. She has many other attractive features though!
I think I understand where you're coming from. If an escape from your life is what you want, then that is what you'll make of your hobby. That's fine; it's your hobby. I enjoy a slightly different hobby, one in which concert hall levels are not a main priority.
I am not trying to "escape from life" I am enriching my life by listening to music which sounds as close to "live" as I can get it. In order to do this I have to close a door having previously checked that no-one wants to join me.
How often do you listen to music on your system alone vs with other people?
Stephen,
We are not so far apart.
I agree with your push towards more group listening and sharing of our hobby. I just do not agree that there is anything wrong with the caveman side of what is a very individual hobby. Audiophile is for me a very small subset of music lover and I'm ok with that.
Good to hear that others have the same family realities! Thanks for the kind words.
Where I differ is that I don't see the mancave retreat as a bad thing. Most of us enjoy it and are better people for having it! Sure we must share and wherever possible invite people in. It's particularly easy to share as music lovers. But let's not beat ourselves up with self loathing because we disappear for a few precious hours to hear those dulcet tones once more!
I enjoy my mancave, too, but if I had a choice, I'd rather put my system up where the rest of my family is. Even better is having 2 systems! But like I said, totally impossible. Kids + hot tubes + turntable/tonearm/cart + speaker cones = Unhappiness or even Increased Likelihood of Loss of Offspring(s) via Electrocution. I do listen to a lot of Sarah Vaughan, etc. with my kids, who love to listen with me, actually. They already have their favorite records, and both of them have taken to sniffing the records, say they love how they smell
I think what Art and Stephen are trying to convey, though, is that there is this persistent negative image of the audiophile. Somewhat slovenly in habit, most likely overweight and without friends, who care more about placing Shakti stones and other mystical tweakery on everything on sight, who crave that Absolute Sound. I find the image repulsive, too, but unfortunately, such a stereotype persists about audiophiles, precisely because some of them become hoarders of good music or something. They're convinced that they are the only and ultimate arbiters to what sounds closest to live music and be damned if they're not right (see our forum threads), and would rather debate wow & flutter until they're blue in the face than actually sharing that music, communicating what they love through experience.
<sigh>
So does all this mean I have to start bathing again?
s.
If we are not careful Art's gonna drop the rock on us.
Dave, Great 1st post, great thread and welcome to the forum.
My girlfriend hates my set-up and its perceived "complexity." But what does she do when I go to work? She cranks up her dance/world/pop music to very high levels, both subwoofers pumping and grooves the day away. I even bought her a 5 disc Marantz tray player so she wouldn't have to fuss with my single tray universal. She even likes to dig through my vinyl for some of the stuff she grew up on. The downside is I take a lot of heat for not wanting the young adults who live here and roam in and out to mess up my equipment the way they routinely destroy their mass market electronics on an annual basis. Christmas is for replacing all the Wal-Mart crap they've used and abused all year. Who leaves stacks of dirty cd's, broken cases and smudged vinyl laying around for me to clean up all the time? Yea, she's a music lover, but she doesn't love the stuff that delivers the music. Oh well.
And I dare not "monopolize" the house by cranking up a good symphony in the evening. Or a Pixies album. My music seems to irritate on both ends of the spectrum.
I have been able to turn on my two sons to quality music. they were raised without TV and the TT on all day. Bought them starter systems, Grados, and recently my oldest rec'd a Bellari and some collector vinyl for a graduation present. My g-friends oldest is also somewhat into hi-fi and will listen with me a while until he gets bored. It's not the music, he just can't sit still very long.
If I didn't make my set-up a little exclusive, it would be messed up pretty fast because not everyone appreciates fine things. I'm not a slave to materialism- I just want to keep what I have worked hard to buy in good condition. Once in a while we can get together for a movie. I like to set the Dolby Digital to "Frighten." Pixar has some nice soundtracks.
If you look it up, you'll find that most fetishists tend toward practicing said fetish in rather solitary fashion.
Same with Hi Fi.
I bet if you Google "Foot Fetish Forums" or "S & M communities," you'll find places with more members than we have here - we are a reasonably small fetish group, but the objects we spend our money on cost alot more per item, on average.
Anyway....back to the subject at hand...
My wife and kids know how to work every system in the place. If we are playing living room kickball, or house ball tag, or laser tag, etc...the Hi Fi often provides the soundtrack.
Maybe if we did a little creating naming, like calling wires "looms," we could change the perception of the hobby. Instead of calling it listening, we could tell people we are 'soundtracking.'
"Dude, it was total fun, we hung out and downed some brews and totally soundtracked the night away!"
Another problem is that it seems many audiophiles don't share very well. Much of the solitude seems to stem from a need to control what's being played, too; which doesn't translate well into a multi-person endeavor.
Watch at a Hi Fi show - I think the reason most people sit and listen for 30 seconds or less is mainly a function of their not being the guy who is in charge of the CD player. Then, if someone sticks around long enough to get in a request, most other people get up and leave. It's an odd phenomenon.
Not fun? You mean like there is no party? How is reading a book any different, aside from bedtime stories for the kids?
As I was thinking about this some more, it dawned on me why we are an aging group in this hobby - we've lost all the younger potential audiophile recruits to Halo III and Call of Duty II, etc...
We are the 'gamers' of days past.
Scott (the other, first Scott) makes the correct point. The actual sittin' around listening part is closer to reading than to more naturally 'group' activities like videogames and sports.
Even though you can listen as a group, the act itself is deeply solitary. Commentary tends to be beside the point, whether it's "That was, uhhhh, great" or "Did you hear the way Trane trailed off the note there?"
(Written commentary works, I think, because it serves as an adjunct to the solitary act. Well done essays and reviews take you deeper into the solitary act of listening.)
The swapping gear and debating the merits of this or that piece of technology, on the other hand, is part of the ham radio to computer continuum (hmmmm....he said continuum) which is a group activity, though whether you want to be a part of that group in public is, of course, debatable.
What makes this 'hobby,' (a word I dislike) unusual is the way in which it combines solitary and group aspects, and the fact that you're asked to make aesthetic judgments about technology.
There is nothing that can or should be done about all this, any more than there is nothing to be done about the vanishingly small numbers of people who are deep readers, can write literate computer programs, have a working understanding of complexity or a hundred other things.
One is not likely to find in those folks the kind of all purpose sociability, the ability to find pleasure in community that SM talks about - but I'm not convinced it would be there under any circumstances. Being an audiophile may be a kind of compensation for what many of us lack in other areas.
s.
bingo
Think of it as a form of meditation. Talking shit during meditation will cause the Buddha dude to rap your knuckles with a stick.
"Less cables (that the given signal may be required to pass through) is always a good thing when it comes to audio quality." Yes!!
"Each time you remove something, you get closer to the original signal, which is what really drives your enjoyment of the music."
To me, that's what it's all about; getting as close as possible to the original.
I was just trying to explain what Art was talking about.
Both reading and listening can be solitary activities -- just like a lot of other things -- but both can also be shared activities. I don't mean to suggest that one way is better than the other, but I do see how the idea of "the listening chair" being a necessary component of hi-fi can be repellent.
This is something I've thought about a bit. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I'm too different from anyone else who especially enjoys listening to music on the hi-fi. And I do think I'm a lonely person. I think I surround myself with music, and place such value on my LPs, because I'm missing something else. I think I got into music in the first place because I felt lonely and apart from others.
Yes, the exception proves the rule.
Step one in turning people on to audiophilia - after hearing your system, the first thing they go buy is the music they heard you play, not the gear.
Excellent point! It's the music, not the gear that gets people into this hobby.
While I love to do the solitary listening thing from the sweet spot, I often host music-listening sessions with friends. It's not "serious" listening in the audiophile sense as we often talk and always drink during these sessions. We may start with a meal, but we eventually wind up in my listening room and we almost always spend time listening to vinyl.
All of my friends grew up with vinyl, and all but one completely got out of it when CDs hit the scene. Of course, none of them had ever heard anything approaching an audiophile level turntable and they are constantly amazed at the sound of a good pressing of a well recorded album.
Two of my friends have since invested in decent audio gear, while some of the others who are more financially constrained have made efforts to optimize the playback of their favorite music.
Now none of these guys are going to buy $20,000 pre-amps and $1K/meter interconnects (including the one guy who could easily afford it), but they all are getting serious about music.
True. Whenever I listen to music with friends, I have to go out and buy a dozen new records the next day.
For me, when visitors are over, the music system is a backdrop and talking point for conversation..or "listen to this, it will blow your mind!" and other such sundry comments.
it wasn't the music that got me into hifi..
ive been immersed in music all my life, being a musician and all.. but it was only after hearing a proper studio monitoring system(while I was apprenticing at a German recording studio) that I became interested in hifi..
if it is just about the music..the equipment doesn't matter.
it isn't, of course. this hobby is about swapping boxes and buying things.
i giggle when i see an audiophile say "its just about the music, man" as they obsess over their zerostat guns and woo woo AC cables.
So, what test tones were they playing that attracted you to Hi Fi?
Tee hee hee
Sounds to me like a lot of people are in denial as to who they are and what this hobby is mostly about. Makes me laugh even harder when I hear everyone agreeing that the equivalent today is the gamer....how many millions of nintendo and xbox sales will it take to tell us it's a mainstream activity way bigger than home theatre with mass penetration.
We are a tiny niche, very far away from mass, with our primarily solitary activity....but that's no reason to categorize us all as lonely and sad.
My brother will disappear for hours (days) to take his Triumph bike apart and put it back together. Do you think that group of enthusiasts worry about their self esteem and refer to themselves as lonely?
I think this is symptomatic of part of the problem (if there is one)....after all, if those of on the inside of the activity have such negative views of who we are when we're alone with our music and systems, how can we hope to attract others to join us?
I sure hope the majority of you out there aren't lonely but, like me, appreciate and value that we are afforded the luxury of some alone time with our hobby.
I'm a contented audiophile and also a music lover who is happy that the two can work together while recognizing and celebrating the differences.
Shared? When was the last time you read a novel with a group? The sweet spot is a reality of high quality hifi. It's not a choice to be anti-social. Some things just work better solo.
it wasn't the music that got me into hifi..
ive been immersed in music all my life, being a musician and all.. but it was only after hearing a proper studio monitoring system(while I was apprenticing at a German recording studio) that I became interested in hifi..
if it is just about the music..the equipment doesn't matter.
it isn't, of course. this hobby is about swapping boxes and buying things.
I was actually about to say the same thing. That if its just about the music, the equipment doesn't matter. For I too was a music lover all my life, long before taking an interest in the art of reproducing it. I make no apologies for my interest in audio, any more than I would for my taste in music. (I mean other than Duran Duran. That, I apologize for. Clearly, some bands would never have existed were it not for the invention of the portable 1500 watt blow dryer). I don't see audio as simply a means of appreciating music better; but as something quite separate and distinct in and of itself. Although it has an inextricable relationship to music. I don't have a problem with that, but many in this hobby seem to have some sort of hang up about enjoying audio for audio's sake. As though that somehow subverts enjoying music for its sake. I say just the example of 50 million teenaged ipodding Apple-bots dismisses that idea. Audio is not "all about the music", any more than digging fine wine is "all about getting a buzz". Or being a fancy sports car enthusiast is all about getting from A to B more efficiently.
There is art, science and technology in audio, none of which music is really about. Nor is it just about "swapping boxes and buying things" for everyone, because I for one rarely feel to do that these days. For some its about learning things, for others it may be about creating things, adding their beliefs to the engineering side. Some take an interest in sharing their knowledge with others, and some may employ audio to help them make music.
i giggle when i see an audiophile say "its just about the music, man" as they obsess over their zerostat guns and woo woo AC cables.
"woo woo AC cables"
I'm not even going to ask what that means....
People I know do it fairly often. There are "book clubs," and things like that. Often, when I'm into a book, I recommend it to someone else so that we can talk about it. I have co-workers here in the office who pass books around and discuss them. Obviously, we're not reading together in a circle or anything like that.
Look, I know that things like "the sweet spot" and "the listening chair" need to exist for hi-fi reviewers and designers. I don't see why they need to exist for the everyday enthusiasts. I think too often in this hobby the everyday enthusiast attempts to play the role of reviewer. I don't know why. I guess it has something to do with the fact that by listening for differences in components, one must to some degree assume the role of reviewer. But truly reviewing equipment isn't inherently fun. Listening to music on the hi-fi is.
It isn't? I think most people make that choice.
That, by itself, I can agree with.
Just for the record (ha), I love who I am and I love listening to music on the hi-fi. I think there are beautiful, fascinating people in this hobby. I'm not trying to paint an overall gloomy picture of audiophilia, or whatever we want to call it. I just think there are aspects to this hobby such as "the sweet spot," "the listening chair," "the reference component," even the term "High End," that have been abused in such a way that they've become indicative of a weird sort of boyish, elitist materialism. And none of it has anything to do with music.
And it's gross.
I don't mean to suggest that we shouldn't appreciate time alone with our music. I listen alone far more than I listen with others, in fact. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't often wish there was someone with me. Maybe that's just me!
And I agree with ncdrawl and others who say that this hobby isn't all about music. I've said that myself many times.
But this hobby, like all worthwhile things (including people), is vast and complex, and I think it'd be a shame to pretend that it's not.
It's the quest for the holy grail of that perfect sound. The one that makes you relisten to your whole collection and get tingles down the back of your neck while you do it. That's where we find fun. It enhaces our connection with the music.
In order to get to nirvana you have to listen to lots of equipment...both the quest and the end result are fun!
"In order to get to nirvana you have to listen to lots of equipment...both the quest and the end result are fun! "
End result? Gosh, you mean you found Nirvana?
Perhaps you can provide a few tips. Share, share....
I think that "nirvana" thing is overplayed, too. But I do agree that both the quest and the end result can be fun. Our individual quests/goals might be a little different, but there's nothing wrong with that.
stephen: if you have not already done so, get some old 96-97 copies of "the listener", art dudley's former mag. you will read strikingly similar views and they are just a blast to read.
fwiw, for me this hobby is kind of like a hunt. i am hunting to get the most music from what i have and when i have the money, hunting to get the maximum music from what i can afford. i recently had the chance to get a killer deal on a much better cartridge and phono-pre (i got to borrow first, so i knew it was better). i have been fooling around for weeks, by myself and then with other local listeners dialing it in. i think setting up a cartridge is a good example of the melding of the 2 camps, the all about the music camp and the toys camp as you get a cartridge very close with the protractor and other devices, but the final tuning is done by ear. as a bonus, i have gotten a number of my listening buddies involved in the process as well. and recently, some of my friends came over with a power conditioner and a number of different power cords to try out. it was a lot of fun. also, gear that is portable can be brought to someone else's house.
as for spreading the religion, when our local listening group has a get together, we try to welcome newbys heartily and get them involved. i try to invite a new person over if i have contact info from them and they seem interested. group sessions are fun, but a little overwhelming for the uninitiated.
Nirvana seems a short-time place audiophiles inhabit before they habituate to the new sound and eventually find flaw...and move to Nirvana II, III, etc...
Sure, we arrive at good sound and are happy, for a while. But, you know the enemy of good, right?
I was reading Volume 1, Number 2 on the train this morning! I've been ripping off Art's ideas since they first started making sense to me. It's a way of thinking about music (and life) that I find really attractive.
I'm always hunting for new music. (My desire for new music is so strong it borders on being a real problem.) The hi-fi allows me to listen to that music. I think a successful hi-fi also inspires the search for new music, but only as much as new music inspires same. The hi-fi, then, is the second priority, but it's a really close second.
I hear that!
Art says something very smart in the issue of Listener I was reading this morning. Comparing the audio and automobile hobbies and wondering why hi-fi brands such as Thiel and Levinson aren't as widely known as car brands such as Porche and Ferarri, Art says:
"People are less actively dissatisfied with their hi-fis than with their cars. Imagination can fill in what's missing over the radio. It cannot widen the shoulder of a road.
"[This should] remind those charged with promoting the growth of hi-fi that, before you can profess to know what The People want and need, you have to try and understand what it is they do not. Then after that, yes -- get across to the people who can afford it what it is that better hi-fi can bring them."
(Somewhere in there is the answer to why Michigan J. Frog's friend's daughter preferred her iPod earbuds to the expensive headphones they offered her.)
art has me so stoked up from those equipment reviews, i would love to try and put together some of those now vintage components and see how if they stand the test of time. i'll bet they are still musical. they would be comparatively cheap now used. unfortunately, a great deal of that stuff is no longer manufactured, so high quality did not guarantee survival. for example, i read a great review of a rack by "mana acoustics", but gone since about 2000 (the tech bubble).
The Mana rack was an interesting item. Mana was a competitor in the increasingly stiff market for isolation devices in 2000, as was I. The interesting thing about the Mana rack, at least according to Mana affectionados, was the more shelves the better. I distinctly recall seeing a photo of a Mana rack with thirteen shelves.
Common ground at last. I knew we'd get there.
Here's where we tread somewhat different paths. How does it get to "gross"? I just re-read your Mikey's visit blog. Am I correct in sensing some excitement as you lowered yourself into his "listening chair" to behold the mighty $100,000 Caliburn through amps that you can hardly lift and speakers that might deserve a concert hall. The value of that total system......
Sure there's bling and extreme materialism in hifi but to each their own. Without it you would never have the Caliburn as the developers would have no funds to develop their products. Trickle down is a wonderful end result and we mere mortals benefit.
How many of us are guilty of slavering over audiohile porn....does that make us bad people?
Yep, me, too. I've liked your tone from the very beginning of this conversation.
Let me tell you: I like Mikey A LOT. He's an awesome dude to spend time with. BUT I honestly wouldn't want to own any of his gear. His records? YES. But his gear? No. His listening room? Nope.
And I always feel a little uncomfortable when someone invites me to sit in their dedicated listening chair. I feel like there's a limit on how much time I can spend there, and I'm never sure when that time has expired. I'd much rather we all sit or stand together.
I agree. I am honestly thankful for products such as the Caliburn. It's a fine of example of a component that is worth the incredible price, and there is evidence that its technology has found its way into lower-priced 'tables (although the best example, the Criterion, still costs a whopping $58,000 without tonearm). I just think there are too many components that are not worth their incredible prices. I wish more manufacturers would spend more effort on making products of higher value.
Not at all.
Art Dudley was the guest speaker at the Connecticut Audio Society (CAS) Holiday meeting today. I just wanted to say thanks to Art - does he post here? He mentioned in his talk how dynamics were important to him and I suggested that he and the Stereophile crew give the designs by Dr. Earl Geddes a listen. I've not heard them myself but Geddes is obviously highly competent in the field and his approach is something new with patented technology. I'm not associated with him in any way, just curious myself about listening impressions:
http://www.gedlee.com/abbey.htm
http://www.gedlee.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/earl-geddes/6/92/922
I may be mistaken, but I thought Ncdrawl was familiar with those speakers. Perhaps he can compare and contrast, he seems astute in that category of speaker.
Ncdrawl has another speaker that uses Geddes' waveguide technology - not the same speakers.
Pete B.
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