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Jan Vigne
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"Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with your own?"

?

This is a direct quote from a forum member who has listed the numerous members he has placed on "ignore".

It would appear to raise the question, what is the purpose of a discussion forum?

KBK
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

really Jan? Who did that?

20,000 pages of posts later, with even one minor discussion having turned to actual death threats with guns (toward me)..in over 14 years of writing on forums and newsgroups ..I have STILL not put a single person on 'ignore'.

IMHO, that is a very foolish thing to do.

I prefer to 'get my shit straight' and keep myself all in one spot, to control and understand my emotions --and use my cranial power to move forward in life.

Putting people on ignore, in my opinion, is the opening gambit to one's stumbling down the road toward having people stand in front of an open pit with machine guns awaiting and a few bags of lime on the side.

In the world of psychology, the mentality (read:psychological consideration or state) that does the one thing....can ultimately lead - via the same path....to the other. It's a pretty far reach, but yes, they are most definitely connected.

And to put it a clear and vulgar way, there is no fucking way in hell I'll move an inch toward that.

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi


Quote:
IMHO, that is a very foolish thing to do.

Then what is the purpose of this discussion forum? Do you come to this forum only to hear your own opinions reinforced and echoed or do you come here to engage in thoughtful debate? Are there two forums at work here, one for those who share one opinion and another for those who want something else?

And, please, let's not rehash the same old arguments about why after three banishments one individual has been removed from the forum. That is territory that has been covered innumerable times and that decision is not the topic of this thread. This thread should, I would hope, be about the reaction of the members to the opinions of others and not about the reaction of the moderators to the forum. If at all possible, no wars, please.

tom collins
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

if i may take a stab. i think that much of the "discussion" that happens here is a reflection of the polarization of our society in general that we have experienced for about the past 20 years. i believe that we live in a society where many members value being right quite highly. i believe that combinging that value with the poarization is responsible for so much of the stridency we hear on this forum. one consequence of this is that for the most part, society has lost the ability and desire to engage in civilized debate. the kind where the debators start from the premise that the other person may have a legitimate disagreement with me, and the fact that he disagrees with me does not make him a lesser person, just someone who disagrees with me.
where did this come from - take a look at what passes for "news" today for a good start. i am not just talking about the extreme versions of talk radio, but the editorializing that comes in the mainstream news.
i do not generally participate in the arguments on this forum regarding the price of gear or whether cables make a difference unless i get frustrated, which happens occasionally. there is a perfect example of my point above.
maybe people hit "ignore" because it is not so much that people don't want to hear views that differ from their own, it is that they don't want to hear said views expressed in the manner that is becoming too common on this board. the first amendment gives us free speech, and i also believe that it gives us the right not to have to hear certain speach if we choose not to.
although i don't use ignore, i can understand why some folks here may do so.

KBK
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

I'm curious, Tom..was it my little bit of vulgarity that bothered you? I'm jus' askin. I can do it without the vulgarity,and usually do,and can revert to that. However it does amuse me at the expense of others, to some degree.

To end, I am not amused by this psychological trait emphasis that has always been lurking in the background and has begun to 'ring loudly' (again) in western society-with regards to it peeking above the 'conscious awareness horizon'.

I like to drag it out into the light so people can see it for what it is..and to where it ultimately leads to..so they can understand to be aware of it and to try and nip it in the bud, so to speak. To prevent it's spread to where it wants to go to.

Democracies have ALWAYS slid into tyranny. Always. Be aware of the flow and the mechanism, is my point. It's the little steps..that get you there. Thankfully - Tyranny always dies. But not before it kills millions. This, sometimes...over centuries.

As for loosing the ability to engage in civilized debate; one must realize that society and life in all it's ways is changing RADICALLY FAST right now. Things to cling to are disappearing before a single generation can even grow to understand it may exist.

This is NOT going to change for quite some time and may NEVER change or slow for the rest of the existence of the human race. We are moving into the 'sharp change' part of the evolutionary growth curve. Ie, exponential vs that of linear change.

The ONLY thing that will slow it down is the moving of the human race back into the stone age.

People are freaking out. Thus, the stridency.

Like being in a foxhole with other folks -and being shot at, all at the same time- you get to see who the real people are and who the animals are.

Be aware, get up on your surf boards, the change is getting fast now. Surf -or drop below the wave - and possibly drown. Like rats on ship that is pitching fast and hard in a quick and busy Sea..they bite each other in their confused frenzy. The world has been greased and it is primed for change.

Being aware of it and attempting to help steer this ship is key to attempting to keep it on any sort of humane course. Otherwise, it will be like some rising demigods selling false passports and exits to countries where there is no exit. They kill you after they take your money and value. These sort of people are drawn to, involve themselves in--- and exacerbate these situations. You can see it in the current politics and media presentation in the world out there - anywhere.

BTW, this post is exactly on topic. It is the origin of what Jan is hoping to address.

Know the ground you walk on before you attempt to address the idea of a question.

tom collins
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

actually K, i really had not considered what you had said but thought i was responding to J. vulgarity does not bother me in the least, if it is useful to the argument. i am afraid you are way beyond my level in the psychological domain becasue i don't reall understand what you are saying with the conscious awareness horizon and all that. idon't have time to make a study of it either. i was just making a few observations, perhaps i am a dinosaur, one of those that does not believe you have to step backward on the evolutionary scale to go forward. just hit ignore if it bothers you.

Benonymous
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

look at that! I'm a quoted author

Quote:
Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with your own?

I directed this question at KBK originally and it was in response to a longish post he put in the "CD Demagnetiztion" thread. I think he's of the opinion that someone who disagrees with your own cherished opinion is attacking you.

As I have made clear several times, despite some of the provocative barbs aimed at me, I don't and won't lower myself to name calling and vulgarity to get my point across. I freely admit that I'm a sceptic when it comes to some of the devices I have learned about on this forum and elsewhere. I also enjoy prodding people to provide proof of their claims. Is that so bad? Geoff Kait still hasn't answered any of the simple questions I put to him about testing and calibration of his products. How could a qualified Aerospace Engineer sleep at night if he hadn't checked and rechecked his work? Lives could be at stake in an aircraft repair facility.

Do you know if you're not logged in, you can see the posts of the people you have on ignore? That's right Jan. For your information, you're the only user I have on 'ignore'. The reason behind this is simple, you post acres of vitriolic ranting whilst touching only lightly on the subject under discussion. It's that simple. So after reading paragraph upon paragraph of this stuff I've come to the conclusion that you have nothing more to say on any subject. I have you pegged as the 'Defender of all Tweaks' So thread regarding tweaks and outlandish claims for silly products will invoke the same response from Jan as soon as the veracity of the claims being made is questioned.

KBK on the other hand, can be quite amusing as the post above indicates . He disappears off onto strange and esoteric meanderings, often ignoring the subject of the discussion. he must be entertaining when he's drunk.

Anyway, this is a fine thread but has absolutely nothing to do with 'Tips and Tweaks' another FAIL from Jan.

DcConnelly
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

I'm a young newcomer to this hobby of hi-fi. I come to this forum to hear as many opinions and to learn as much as I can, and it really bums me out to see the animosity between some members of this forum. The petty bickering that goes on is ridiculous. If I wanted to hear people sling insults at each other I would give up music and watch some shitty show on MTV (maybe I should? at least there'd be hot chicks).

Dave

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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi


Quote:
I'm a young newcomer to this hobby of hi-fi. I come to this forum to hear as many opinions and to learn as much as I can, and it really bums me out to see the animosity between some members of this forum.

comes with the territory, killer. it has been and will always be this way. the only way to avoid it is to simply stop coming to forums.. id rather see someone passionate about what they argue about(if it is on subject)...they can keep their "polite", hell..I like being cussed at. makes me feel like I am back in my infantry platoon.

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi


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Do you know if you're not logged in, you can see the posts of the people you have on ignore?

So you even cheat at ignoring people. ROTFLMAO! Weak, FC, very weak.

However, as usual,your post doesn't touch on the subject of this thread. Just another opportunity for you to insult people who you say you have on "ignore".

LOL!

Benonymous
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

Admit it Jan, you set a trap for me by using a direct quote. How can you expect me to ignore that, I just had to have a peek. You're taking all this stuff here way too seriously (as usual) I think KBK enjoys the thrust and parry, you just get mean.

My last post on this thread Jan, from here on I will ignore you as agreed.

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

What? You're still cheating on the "ignore" feature?! Geez!!!

It's expected you would feel I set a trap for you, FC. Yep, I set a trap for you to come here and insult people. How cunning of me. That's prefectly logical to you but not to anyone else.

And for you information, I'd been asking the same question for weeks. You should have seen it several times when cheating on the "ignore" feature. Conveniently you don't remember that, eh? I nearly choked when I saw you hypocritically ask just what I've been wanting you to answer.

But now that FC is out of this game, can we return to the original premise of the thread?


Quote:
Then what is the purpose of this discussion forum? Do you come to this forum only to hear your own opinions reinforced and echoed or do you come here to engage in thoughtful debate? Are there two forums at work here, one for those who share one opinion and another for those who want something else?


Quote:
If at all possible, no wars, please.

JoeE SP9
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

The answer for me is a resounding no. I will listen to anyone who has something to say without name calling. When elected officials are compared with Nazi's I draw the line. I'm beginning to wonder about the ages of some of the participants of these forums. Some people here act like a frustrated 16 year old with a bad case of Acne and no girlfriend. If they are not that young I can only wonder what they act like in person. Let me rephrase that. I wouldn't want to be around them if they act like that in person.

JIMV
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

""Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with your own?"

Forums exist for disagreement...the magazine, which has no immediate response mechanism, does not. Which is why I have no problem with folk posting whatever drivel they desire on the forum but do object to non audio stuff in the magazine...

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi

People put others on ignore because they can't change their minds. In other words, they're a bunch of fucking pussies. So, my question is, who the fuck is cussing in here?

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi


Quote:
""Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with your own?"

Forums exist for disagreement...the magazine, which has no immediate response mechanism, does not. Which is why I have no problem with folk posting whatever drivel they desire on the forum but do object to non audio stuff in the magazine...

Conflict creates creativity. Except for the mentally ill. JoeE is a good example. He has resigned himself to defense mechanisms and lost all hope of writing one shred of evidence to support his claims. Reminds me of Major Major Major Major from Catch-22.


Quote:
Maj. Major Major Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don't want anyone to come in and see me while I'm in my office. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir? What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you're gone?
Maj. Major Major Major: Tell them I'm in and ask them to wait.
First Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major Major Major: Until I've left.
First Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major Major Major: I don't care.
First Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you've left?
Maj. Major Major Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won't be here then, will you?
Maj. Major Major Major: No.
First Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major Major Major: Also, Sergeant, I don't want you coming in while I'm in my office asking me if there's anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there's anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major Major Major: When I'm not there.
First Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major Major Major: Whatever has to be done.
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.

JoeE SP9
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Re: "Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree wi


Quote:

Quote:
""Is it so difficult to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with your own?"

Forums exist for disagreement...the magazine, which has no immediate response mechanism, does not. Which is why I have no problem with folk posting whatever drivel they desire on the forum but do object to non audio stuff in the magazine...

Conflict creates creativity. Except for the mentally ill. JoeE is a good example. He has resigned himself to defense mechanisms and lost all hope of writing one shred of evidence to support his claims. Reminds me of Major Major Major Major from Catch-22.


Quote:
Maj. Major Major Major: Sergeant, from now on, I don't want anyone to come in and see me while I'm in my office. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir? What do I say to people who want to come in and see you while you're gone?
Maj. Major Major Major: Tell them I'm in and ask them to wait.
First Sgt. Towser: For how long?
Maj. Major Major Major: Until I've left.
First Sgt. Towser: And then what do I do with them?
Maj. Major Major Major: I don't care.
First Sgt. Towser: May I send people in to see you after you've left?
Maj. Major Major Major: Yes.
First Sgt. Towser: You won't be here then, will you?
Maj. Major Major Major: No.
First Sgt. Towser: I see, sir. Will that be all?
Maj. Major Major Major: Also, Sergeant, I don't want you coming in while I'm in my office asking me if there's anything you can do for me. Is that clear?
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir. When should I come in your office and ask if there's anything I can do for you?
Maj. Major Major Major: When I'm not there.
First Sgt. Towser: What do I do then?
Maj. Major Major Major: Whatever has to be done.
First Sgt. Towser: Yes, sir.

Did someone take your Benzoyl Peroxide? I need no defense. You have no offense. If you consider name calling and foul language to be an offense you have my sympathy. Your responses and choice of words are offensive (to the ears). If you are so "literate" why do you have such difficulty conversing as if you had some manners (they're called broughtups down your way). If your writing was witty or humorous I would give you credit. Unfortunately, when you have nothing to say, which is most of the time, you resort to foul language and name calling. That's just how a pimply faced 15 year old with no girlfriend responds. Showing pictures of your gun in this forum only reinforces what I've just said.

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