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JIMV
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House bill kills private Insurance

The thieves in the House inserted a restriction no one is speaking of in their 'plan'...I am not talking about cost, where they lie like a rug, but about insurance...On page 16 they inserted this poison pill

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day"

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1501&status=article&...

So, if you have a plan, you can keep it, but never change it or providers. If you do not have a plan, or want to change your coverage, then your only option is the government program.

God knows what is the other 1000 pages....

I expect the loss of perhaps half a million jobs in the insurance industry...

enframed
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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I expect the loss of perhaps half a million jobs in the insurance industry...

You say that as though it's a bad thing.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Medicare actual trumps the insurance industry in terms of efficiency and overhead - maybe they should take this approach with banks, too!

Actual bottom line, and you heard it here first: We will end up with a single payor system, and some genius will find a way to re-invent and then sell us health care insurance again. We'll have our tax burden rise, and then spend like we do now for 'actual insurance.'

It'll be fun.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:

Quote:

I expect the loss of perhaps half a million jobs in the insurance industry...

You say that as though it's a bad thing.

Replacing half a million moderately high paying jobs in the private sector with a few hundred thousand government bureaucrats IS a bad thing.

j_j
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:
The thieves in the House inserted a restriction no one is speaking of in their 'plan'...I am not talking about cost, where they lie like a rug, but about insurance...On page 16 they inserted this poison pill

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day"

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1501&status=article&...

So, if you have a plan, you can keep it, but never change it or providers. If you do not have a plan, or want to change your coverage, then your only option is the government program.

God knows what is the other 1000 pages....

I expect the loss of perhaps half a million jobs in the insurance industry...

So, what is provided in that paragraph, pray tell?

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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Replacing half a million moderately high paying jobs in the private sector with a few hundred thousand government bureaucrats IS a bad thing.

I bet you worried when the buggy whip industry went to pot, too. How much social welfare do those people deserve?

Protectionism, eh?

Protecting a parasitic industry is now a conservative virtue?

"Half a million moderately high paying jobs..." and who is eating that cost now?

Aren't you the guy who wanted to kill the UAW and those "moderately high paying jobs?"

I get it, you hate blue collar and love white collar - ewwww.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

And government employees are not the pinnacle parasites? WOW!

j_j
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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And government employees are not the pinnacle parasites? WOW!

So what is "as provided in ... paragraph"? What does it say?

enframed
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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And government employees are not the pinnacle parasites? WOW!

No more so than private insurance company employees and stockholders. Who push paper just as far.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Ah, what the hell. Why should the rich be allowed to spend the last few years of their lives in an Alzheimer ward, shitting all over themselves, and the poor miss out on that opportunity and die 5 years early?

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:

Quote:
And government employees are not the pinnacle parasites? WOW!

So what is "as provided in ... paragraph"? What does it say?

You have to read the first 16 pages to figure out what this refers to....the bill is not written so that mere mortals can understand it. If we could understand legislation it would never pass.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Finally, a cause for the conservatives other than shooting and blowing up abortion providers or wanting some moon eyed school prayer ceremony!

"Save the Insurance Companies!"

Maybe you can make cool jewelry and T-shirts and make a club, like "Greenpiece" with a dollar sign in the logo!

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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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Finally, a cause for the conservatives other than shooting and blowing up abortion providers or wanting some moon eyed school prayer ceremony!

"Save the Insurance Companies!"

Maybe you can make cool jewelry and T-shirts and make a club, like "Greenpiece" with a dollar sign in the logo!

Err, guy I went to college with had a silver dollar sign brooch he always wore.

So that's taken, I think, by the AynRandies.

His admitted desire was to be rich enough to get a gold one. No comment, have I.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Wow, you went to school with a rap artist? Which one, Ice Age?

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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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Wow, you went to school with a rap artist? Which one, Ice Age?

No, I think his name was P. L. Eistone

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

I own stock in at least insurance company. If it screws up it can be sued and it pays its employees far more than the jobs the dems are producing, the very few. When presented with a choice between a private company and the bumbling, partisan, political government...I'll take the private sector every time. The only thing government does well is fight wars and that is only because they are fighting other government armies, more inept than ours. I suspect a private army would kick butt.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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I own stock in at least insurance company. If it screws up it can be sued and it pays its employees far more than the jobs the dems are producing, the very few. When presented with a choice between a private company and the bumbling, partisan, political government...I'll take the private sector every time. The only thing government does well is fight wars and that is only because they are fighting other government armies, more inept than ours. I suspect a private army would kick butt.

You mean a private army like Blackwater?

Having just lived through a wonderful economic example of what the private marketplace can do if left to its own devices, I will have to agree that you are crazy to think that we are always best served by private industry.

"... and it pays its employees far more than the jobs the dems are producing..."

Yes, with your health care dollar. Great!

The insurance industry is so corrupt, so base, so vile...that people have turned against it and look to a bumbling partisan government as an improvement over the industry you seek to protect.

Alas, when you have your Bud Light party to celebrate UAW workers being laid off, you'll have to have a moment of silnce for your darlings in the insurance industry.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

This is the response I got from Senator Jeff Bingaman (D). I have to admit it is funny.


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Dear Mr. Sanford:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your concerns. As always, I appreciate hearing the views of my constituents, and I encourage you to stay engaged. Your message has been received and will be reviewed; however, because my mail processing system is currently undergoing changes my ability to respond to you in depth is limited. Please visit my website, http://bingaman.senate.gov, for the latest updates on my work on behalf of the people of New Mexico. Again, thank you for informing me of issues that are of importance to you and your community.
Sincerely,

JEFF BINGAMAN
United States Senator

Phone: (202) 224-5521

WTF did he say?

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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:

WTF did he say?

I -think- he said that you can't get decent sound out of a 2-channel system unless you spend at least $1,000 on a power cord.

j_j
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:
This is the response I got from Senator Jeff Bingaman (D). I have to admit it is funny.


Quote:

Dear Mr. Sanford:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your concerns. As always, I appreciate hearing the views of my constituents, and I encourage you to stay engaged. Your message has been received and will be reviewed; however, because my mail processing system is currently undergoing changes my ability to respond to you in depth is limited. Please visit my website, http://bingaman.senate.gov, for the latest updates on my work on behalf of the people of New Mexico. Again, thank you for informing me of issues that are of importance to you and your community.
Sincerely,

JEFF BINGAMAN
United States Senator

Phone: (202) 224-5521

WTF did he say?

He said, in essence "a flunky has taken your letter, read it perfuctorily, and classified it in the weekly popularity poll", and thank you for wasting your time.

Now, before you wonder, I'm not saying this is YOUR fault.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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Having just lived through a wonderful economic example of what the private marketplace can do if left to its own devices, I will have to agree that you are crazy to think that we are always best served by private industry.

You mean the highly regulated and constantly fiddled with economy that our bureaucrats and Congress screwed up?

The same people who have turned against the health care industry are the ones who demand gold plated care paid for by someone else...

Lamont Sanford
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

All I know is that as a government revenuer that taxes are-a-booming! Every bum on the street now feel they're entitled due to shit like, "I used to work in the oil field providing a product so you could drive your SUV before my leg was ripped off," to as much as, "I got three helicopters shot out from under me and now you expect me to pay sales tax?", and of course shit like, "My business only made $4,000 dollars last quarter and now you tell me I owe taxes for peddling my worthless shit!" Every dumb fuck with no residence they can call their own and no legal tender now feel we owe them something. I worked my ass off because everybody knows I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw to work my way through college, paid off our house, my student loan, credit cards every billing period, and so forth just so I can hear fucking cry-babies whine about sitting on their ass all the time. And I know it is total bullshit because I used to be one of those cry-babies. First in line with my hand out. Give me! Give me! Give me! And I thank God nobody gave me shit. Except for the Texas Veteran Commission. They provided me a tool bag with tools so I could frame houses. "What do you do?". "I know how to call in air strikes." "That won't work in Texas, son". "I framed houses part-time in high school". "Oh, that's great! Here ya go! Good luck."

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance
enframed
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:

Quote:

WTF did he say?

I -think- he said that you can't get decent sound out of a 2-channel system unless you spend at least $1,000 on a power cord.

Hahaha.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Private Insurance is not all the Health Care for None bill kills....

From page 430

The level of treatment indicated under subpara5
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat6
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
7 interventions....

Lamont Sanford
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

That's it. I'm going to the video store and renting, "Flatliners".


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I did not come to medical school to murder my class mates no matter how deranged they might be.

Monty
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

The quickest way to kill this health care takeover would be to require Congress to accept it as their health plan. I'll support whatever plan Congress provides for themselves. Otherwise, put me in the "we're gonna get screwed" camp.

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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


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The government, not you, will decide when it's time to stop treatement and let you die and will prevent you from being transfered to another hospital. Not an "opinion" it's in the bill, it goes on to list the types of treament that can be stopped, which includes "antibiotics."

Ultimately I, and you, if you are insured, don't get to decide now, the insurance company does, IE, the stockholders, who, if recent market gains are any indication, should be declared unfit to procreate.

Hahahaha.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

Ultimately, insurance companies only decide if they will pay for something or not.

If an insurance company says no to something, it is absolutely within your purvue to offer to pay for it yourself, like good, God fearing capitalists should. I wonder about people's love of socialized health care via Blue Cross (or insurance company of choice,) yet they abhor it as administered via the government.

Same concept, folks.

Please, the insurance companies will not stand in your way if you declare in your living will that once you are a vegetable, you'd still like the million dollar deluxe care package, it's just at your own expense, not theirs.

Maybe people can start reading through their coverage documents in advance to start answering these questions and comparing the cost of coverage, either way.

Most of this stuff about being denied care is a lie, it's being denied subsidized care.

The medical industry is kind of artificially propped up, anyway. If people had to bear their own costs, then we'd quickly see the law of supply and demand bring costs down significantly.

Ask people what they pay for health care and 99% will have no idea.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

And in private care you also get to sue that insurance company if it fails to live up to its contract...And, as you note, yu can buy the treatment anyway...NONE of those options exist in ObamaCare...cannot sue government and, if the system is designed like Canada's, you have to leave the country for that care you want to pay for....

Oh, and Obama's love factor is falling fast...see Gallup's latest.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-20-obama-poll-economy_N.htm

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:
And in private care you also get to sue that insurance company if it fails to live up to its contract...And, as you note, yu can buy the treatment anyway...NONE of those options exist in ObamaCare...cannot sue government and, if the system is designed like Canada's, you have to leave the country for that care you want to pay for....

Oh, and Obama's love factor is falling fast...see Gallup's latest.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-20-obama-poll-economy_N.htm

Ah! Nowwe are in agreement on something!

I firmly believe in the right to opt out and take responsibility for one's own health care.

There is still way too much Big Brother in what this administration is trying to do. I suspect that what we are seeing now is the 'asking price,' so to speak, with many adjustments to come.

I bet ya that we'll actually end up seeing some form of new government funded gap care or tax incentive as a first step because, even with blue party bean counters talking down the cost, people know this is a potential boodoggle of epic proportion.

The other deal killer is the sense of loss of autonomy that would be associated with the 'no other option' plan the left wing is pursuing.

Hopefully, some more creative and balanced minds will prevail!

There are some already good ideas out there:

Medical Health Savings plans in association with high deductable disaster coverage seems to be something a government plan may lend itself to.

The savings plan comes from the fact that people won't save unless forced, yet caps their obligation. They are only responsible for their own families initial savings 'fill up.'

The high deductible kicks in for the truly large medical tragedies that occur, and with people having the feeling of spending their own money while the use their savings portion of the plan, it opens the door to negotiation and price shopping that, if enough people had plans like this, could make for some consumer inroads into cost containment.

If the average person actually had the feeling of paying for a medical visit, procedure, or medication, then we'd more quickly see the market adjust to consumers being smarter shoppers.

It's something people need to feel more connected to, in my opinion.

On the other hand, people tend to want something for nothing, so watch out - that's a big opportunity for the Peloses (plural of "Pelosi?") of this world to start telling us about our variety of 'free' options, "just so long as it's black." (Henry Ford joke stolen to mock the left wing nanny state nuts who want to run our lives.)

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

The democrat committee responsible for costing the mess has canceled today's meeting without a new date, so a dash of reality has been injected. I believe everyone wants reform, as in more efficient and less costly, but the government scheme to run everything and drive out private is in deep problem.

Buddha
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:
The democrat committee responsible for costing the mess has canceled today's meeting without a new date, so a dash of reality has been injected. I believe everyone wants reform, as in more efficient and less costly, but the government scheme to run everything and drive out private is in deep problem.

Hopefully this "Rush, RUSH, RUSH" BS is over and more reasonable minds will be allowed to actually give this issue the time it deserves in order to address it properly.

Man, I lean left, but Pelosi is about as scary as Palin! Two birds of a feather - all idieology and no pragmatic skills.

They are like matter and anti-matter. Now, if only they'd cancel each other out if they ever met.

j_j
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance


Quote:

Man, I lean left, but Pelosi is about as scary as Palin! Two birds of a feather - all idieology and no pragmatic skills.

They are like matter and anti-matter.

More like non-sense and anti-sense. Unfortunately, while the two are not the same, they tend to add, not cancel.

And that's from a slightly right of the middle in 1970 pissed off moderate who used to be a repugnican but will never be a democrap.

JIMV
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Re: House bill kills private Insurance

I just heard something new...remember the original balloon was floated to have benefits in good programs taxed? The Unions (who run the democrat party) hated that idea so it died a few days ago. Today the Dems in the senate are proposing taxing the insurance company providing that private insurance the value of the policy instead of the individual. That this will result in vastly greater costs to the individuals is not considered worrisome as they figure the workers will blame the evil insurance company and not the greedy congress. They figure the Unions are too dumb to figure this out and the rest of us do not count.

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