Grosse Fatigue
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Have you ever bought a subwoofer or two for your home theater
Elk
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Quote:
CD needs help with the bass.


Huh?

BillB
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I added a subwoofer to my stereo system and I like it much better than before the sub. I have "full range" speakers but they still needed a bit of boost at the bottom. It's not dependent on the type of media - music on CD, DVD, tape, and LP all benefits. Particular recordings vary of course and some need more or less boost.

Buddha
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Quote:

Quote:
CD needs help with the bass.


Huh?

This is more common than you think, Elk.

In speakers that canot adequately reproduce bass, the designers often build in a "bass hump" around the 80-120 Hz region in order to "fool" the ear into thinking there is more bass content being supplied than is really the case.

DVD movie content also frequently has a built in hump like this.

Consider a DVD played back on such a system, and you get what Grosse describes; overly flabby "bass" on DVD's.

CD content generally has a more flat frequency response curve, so Grosse may complain of a seeming lack of bass from the CD, when, in fact, it is his system, not the source material that is leaving him prematurely bass limited.

Grosse may, indeed, require a subwoofer to make for better frequency response when listening to CD's to capture a more "accurate" bass experience.

If he were to actually consider accurate bass reproduction, he would soon realize that his system is not producing true bass from DVD's, as well. That's enough to make any audiophile "dead tired!"

Hope that helps.

KBK
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The first thing you hear with a better clock in a given CD unit, is better bass.

The explanation is a bit long and I will forgo it here, for the moment.

Elk
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
CD needs help with the bass.


Huh?

CD content generally has a more flat frequency response curve, so Grosse may complain of a seeming lack of bass from the CD, when, in fact, it is his system, not the source material that is leaving him prematurely bass limited.


We are in full agreement.

That is, it is not "CD needs help with the bass", but rather the system playing back the CD that needs help.

I didn't know that DVDs commonly have a mid-bass emphasis; I watch very few DVDs. Thanks for the info.

Grosse Fatigue
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I like listening to music and I like watching movies (in a different room). I cannot put up with subwoofers in my home theater. I have 5 NHT 3.3s and I like my bass dry and the dialogue crisp in there. DVD movies are mostly dialogue with the occasional music score pumped up like advertising on the TV. Most people turned down the volume when they get advertising. I do the same when I watch a movie and the music score kicks in with all that bass. In my opinion subwoofers in a home cinema just aggravate that phenomenon.

bobedaone
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I also find it irritating when dialog - usually critical to the plot - is very quiet, but the score and sound effects are turned way up. I often have to adjust the volume many times during a movie.

This can be a real pain because my amplifier doesn't have a volume control. I try to find a "compromise" volume that will allow me to hear quiet parts without rattling my neighbors' walls when the action starts up again.

I don't even have the space for a subwoofer, much less a perceived need.

Buddha
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Quote:
I also find it irritating when dialog - usually critical to the plot - is very quiet, but the score and sound effects are turned way up. I often have to adjust the volume many times during a movie.

This can be a real pain because my amplifier doesn't have a volume control. I try to find a "compromise" volume that will allow me to hear quiet parts without rattling my neighbors' walls when the action starts up again.

I don't even have the space for a subwoofer, much less a perceived need.

What this calls for is some compression!

bobedaone
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Agreed!

Also, I should have said my amplifier doesn't have a REMOTE volume control.

cyclebrain
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Quote:
The first thing you hear with a better clock in a given CD unit, is better bass.

The explanation is a bit long and I will forgo it here, for the moment.

OK I'll bite. What is the definition of a better clock and how does it help the lower range of frequencies?
Are you refering to the accuracy of the clocks frequency in the digital domain? What is your definition of better bass?
Frequency response or some other measure? Based on what I know, all of the critical issues related to digital to analog conversion occur at the high end of the Nyquist limit.

ethanwiner
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Quote:
all of the critical issues related to digital to analog conversion occur at the high end of the Nyquist limit.


This is correct. When people think they hear the bass change due to dither, high sample rates, low jitter clocks, replacement power cables, ad nauseum, it's really an acoustics issue as explained HERE. Or just as likely it's a perception problem.

I've made statements like this many times, and I'm still waiting for someone to offer even one shred of legitimate scientific evidence to the contrary. Show me some response curves, dammit!

--Ethan

cyclebrain
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Quote:

Quote:
all of the critical issues related to digital to analog conversion occur at the high end of the Nyquist limit.


This is correct. When people think they hear the bass change due to dither, high sample rates, low jitter clocks, replacement power cables, ad nauseum, it's really an acoustics issue as explained HERE. Or just as likely it's a perception problem.

I've made statements like this many times, and I'm still waiting for someone to offer even one shred of legitimate scientific evidence to the contrary. Show me some response curves, dammit!

--Ethan

Not sure if you were agreeing with me or were being sarcastic. I realize that as much as I rely on specs and measurements that there are other factors out there that are significant but we can't currently measure. A flat frequency response is not that difficult (at least until we try to convert it from electrical to physical energy)and is not the end all measurment. I still stand by my belief that digital clocks have an insignificant effect on low frequency quality relative to other factors.

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