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linden518
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Gunz!

Just saw this story:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...-police-say/?hp

In short, a robbery takes place in Harlem, in broad daylight (about 9 blocks above where I used to live last year). 4 dudes enter a business which repairs old ranges and restaurant equipments. One dude takes out a Glock and pistol-whips an employee. The owner, a 72 year old man, takes out a shotgun and fires. Caps ALL FOUR FUCKING DUDES, what an evil shot, this old man, hitting all four in such a circumstance. Dirrrrrrty Harry! Senior citizen of the year award! Anyway, 2 die. One of them stumbles 10 blocks south to St. Lukes and the other is found injured.

But the gun wasn't registered, and it's likely that the owner will face punishment. But what's more upsetting are some of these commenters on the link I cited, saying stuff like this guy - who was trying to protect his own life and his workers' - might (or should) get what's coming to him, an eye for an eye.

WTF!

If you were in a situation, and the prospect of you living was dim and the faces of your loved ones - your wife, your grandkids and children - flashed in front of you, would you roll over and die or fight to stay alive at any cost? If you don't choose the latter, I don't know if you really deserve to live on this earth.

I'm not a Charlton Heston-loving douchebag by any means, and I do think we need to do better by gun control. But that's what I mean: gun CONTROL. As long as we have the right to bear arms, let those law-abiding citizens have the means to protect themselves, that's all, y'all. (The fact that such a proposition is essentially a Catch-22 in a systemic, macro situation, I readily acknowledge myself.)

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Gunz!

Each state is different with New York, and particularly New York City, very strict on the use of firearms. Remember Bernhard Geotz? Anyway, Texas would be the exact opposite of New York. In Texas one may use lethal force if one believes his life or property is in danger and be eating breakfast with the grand jury the next morning. In New Mexico it is a lot different. You would think that the land of Billy the Kid would be the same way. Not so. I keep a home defense shotgun in my bedroom. If an intruder comes into my home I have to make every effort, gauging each decision, based on the behavior of the intruder before pulling the trigger as the absolute last resort. Anyway, it's my home. I really don't want to shoot an intruder in my home with a shotgun. I would be responsible for the clean up. It is better to let the intruder live another day if he is smart enough to make the decision to leave immediately as soon as he hears the round being pumped into the chamber because the next second of his behavior would decide his fate.

As for the poor business owner in NYC. Chances are there will be an investigation into why he shot all four people. Why did he do this? Why did he do that? That is just on the criminal side. The families of the assholes and the assholes that survive will have their day in civil court where there will be no jury.

Like Mr Goetz, this old man will be charged with something criminal. His legal costs will ruin his life. All he did was defend his livelihood with an unlicensed firearm. He knew it was unlicensed. He knew he could be robbed and was prepared with an unlicensed firearm. He knew the danger all along. It was partly his fault. He did, in fact, break the law himself. Is it better to die on your feet than live on your knees? Not in New York City.

Every so often I posted shit like, "...total support for the torturer and complete contempt for the victims". Just listen to Dylan's pathetic lyrics on, "The Hurricane". That fucker was guilty of murder. I don't give shit what any fucking lawyer and their sheep have to say about it. "Commit a murder in New York City and you will spend ten days in jail!". Get busted with an unlicensed firearm in New York City and you will spend one year in jail!

JoeE SP9
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Re: Gunz!

The shop owners mistake was not killing all of them.

linden518
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Re: Gunz!

Here's the account, more fleshed out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/nyregion/14shoot.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

The good thing is that the owner, who's been robbed several times before, won't be so penalized: the worst that could happen is a misdemeanor weapons charge... he didn't have a current permit but it seems like he bought the rifle legally after a robbery 30 yrs ago.

Seems that the kids who got shot, 3 of them, were 21 yrs old. Still they were arrested before on robbery & weapons possession, so they weren't some bright-eyed naifs. It's sad nevertheless that they wasted their lives, but in the end, it was their choice to play with fire.

jackfish
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Re: Gunz!

Its probably easy for me to say but I'm glad I don't live anywhere one is required to register a gun. I bet the Glock the perp used wasn't registered either.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Gunz!


Quote:
The shop owners mistake was not killing all of them.

Agreed

Monty
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Re: Gunz!

Texas has 5 magic words that will go a long way toward getting you a no-bill. "I feared for my life."

If you shoot somebody fleeing, you simply say that you thought the perp was attacking in reverse.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Gunz!

That's no joke too! I can't remember the exact dates and place but one case went all the way up the Texas Supreme Court. Before that you had the right to use lethal force in your home if you believed your life was in danger. If you shot somebody in your yard trying to break in the house the saying was to throw his body into the house. Anyway, the supreme court centered on the fact that the perp was running away from an attempted home burglary. The owner of the home got a head shot on the moving target at long distance and at night. I think his only light was street lamps. Texans are generally very good shots. The resolution of the court case changed the law in Texas. It added that if you fear your life or your property is in danger you may use lethal force. Since then a lot of original gangsters have lost their lives over something as simple as stealing hub caps. I remember watching the ten o'clock news in Houston one night. The ten o'clock news was the best show every night. Anyway, the camera panned in on the windshield of the car. There was a single bullet hole in it. Inside was the corpse of somebody who was attempting to steal the stereo deck. The shooter was the owner of the car and shot from the second story window of his apartment. No charges. The owner of the car got to spend the rest of the night at home. Just a some paperwork and a statement was basically all there was to it. And that was probably twenty years before the Texas concealed carry became a right. You have to be tough to live out West.

Monty
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Re: Gunz!

The case of the guy shooting from his apartment happened here in Austin. I remember the ordeal and the angst this caused. Austin is a very liberal city and it burns their britches when state law, which is almost universally conservative in nature, prevents the hippies from tossing someone in jail for stuff like this. It makes for great radio.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: Gunz!

I hear ya. We got an Austin in New Mexico. It's called Santa Fe. Lots of hippies too. I wish they would move to Lubbock. I miss Texas but New Mexico is occupied Texas territory. We need a few Texans here to remind everybody of that fact. I think this magazine used to be based out of Santa Fe.

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