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Jonathan Scull
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Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

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CECE
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

If it doesn't do Blu-Ray it's already OBSOLETE. MKII coming out soon? Blu-Ray enabled? Didn't The PET ROCK get endorsements at toy shows too?

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Hi DUP! Good to hear from you as always.

I see no reason why the deMag, now an Innovations Award winner, wouldn't work on Blu-Ray discs. Why not purchase a deMag and try one for yourself!

Best Regards,
Jonathan
PS Thanks for spreading the word!

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Why then is it not listed in the notes on what it does? Since this is such a precision detailed product. Details missed? Won't beleive until it's tested on Blu-Ray discs. Maybe the ink is different on Blu-Ray, since the discs are using different depth pits for the different wavelength laser. And if ya'd give me one for testing, I'll try it, but homie here don't lay out $1,000 based on M. Fremer and his opinions on this stuff. He hears things no one else can. Send me one, I'll let ya know how it works. Ain't this like the Video Professor, where he is so sure of his stuff he sends ya one for free, cus' he knows you will buy more? Same with those magic pills for thinking better, FOCUS FACTOR, that guy is so sure his magic blend works, he will send out a bottle...So send out some Demags, I'd love to discect it, see what it is and what it does. And I'll tell ya the truthc what i think about it, if I don't hear the correction of magnetic induced distortions on my playback you is gonna know, come on, it works right? $1,000.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Why then is it not listed in the notes on what it does?

Hi DUP, once again, I really appreciate that you're drawing this much attention to Furutech's fine products. You're right! I'll have to change the copy to reflect the deMag's effectiveness on these new high resolution media.


Quote:
And if ya'd give me one for testing, I'll try it...

Aw, I'm really sorry, DUP, while your opinion of the deMag makes a world of difference, Furutech are selling all they can make!


Quote:
So send out some Demags, I'd love to discect it...

I bet! But I'm afraid it's not going to happen. There's a backup of reviewers waiting for them, and alas, you're not on the list.

Best Regards,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Hey, that's good news!

Will they be bringing their IHI Gauss Meter?

I'll bring the most fabulous bottle of wine I can lay my hands on, and you get to help drink it win or lose, but I bet that I can get the same degree of "demagnetizing" measurements by using a Zerostat gun.

I also wager that the values on the guass meter will vary by at least 50% of the claimed difference between treated and untreated LP's just by leaving the meter on "idle" and checking the fluctuation (noise) of the meter.

All this would be fascinating to check!

Heck, I'll bring TWO fabulous bottles!

Three, even!

This would be a great opportunity to set this device apart from the rest!

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

So you just change the claims of what it does, without testing it? Hmmm, so what other claims are just made up? You will just change the copy that it does Blu-Ray, without trying it, with all them fancy test numbers? Hmmmm. Hoe credible is that?

CECE
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

What is in Nano fluid?

CECE
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Coem on, you know they make hundreds right, send one this way. . It's like a bag or Doritos, they will make more right? Will it do LaserDiscs, i have a large collection of them too.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Hey, that's good news! ... I'll bring the most fabulous bottle of wine I can lay my hands on, and you get to help drink it win or lose ... Heck, I'll bring TWO fabulous bottles! Three, even!

Hey Buddha, with bottle cred like that, you're welcome over anytime at all!

Best,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

I look forward to it.

Any "grape" you prefer?

__________________________
__________________________

It really is exciting to perhaps see and here the thing in action...and to see how those measurements hold up!

Highly intruiging.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
So you just change the claims of what it does, without testing it?

My Dear DUP,

Same materials, same physical properties, ergo works for one, works for all.

Appreciate your interest!

Best,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
I look forward to it. Any "grape" you prefer?

We usually have red, not too heavy, earthy or tanic, but otherwise Kathleen and I are quite adaptable! And there's always the Ribbon Chair. Unhappily, the deMag I had here went to another reviewer, so I'm without the Device In Question at the moment.

Regards,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Nope. Blu-ray has different pit depth, so wouldn't the magnetic fields that are causing claimed distortions effect it at a different physical level...you really better run tests, and do the details as claimed in the ads. Since they claim to matter these insignificant values of the magnestism in ink, why wouldn't the pit depth and size of Blu-Ray versus DVD come into play? Get those Furutech "scientists" to work, not just the ad copy dept. Don't sound very technical and scientific, when the ad manager can just change the copy and claims of what a product can do, without checking with the "engineers" and "scientists" at Furutech. And laserdisc has an entrierly different groove and pit concept since it's analog not digital!!! I think Furutech needs more research.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Nope. Blu-ray has different pit depth, so wouldn't the magnetic fields that are causing claimed distortions effect it at a different physical level...

Nope, incorrect, DUP, as stated, the problem is materials-based, and has nothing to do with the technology or pit depth. I'm sure if you read the information available more carefully, you'll see the light.

Best Wishes,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

I wonder if that award has a subtitle? "The most innovative method for seperating a Sucker from his cash". PT Barnum was right.

BTW folks, MSC's (MSCDIRECT.COM) most recent sales flyer lists a demagnetizer on sale for 39.95. Since it's capable of completely demagetizing a 50 pound hunk of tool steel, I am quite sure that it would work quite well for demagnetizing a CD or LP.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

YUP. One of the best supply firms out there, along with Grainger. In Audiophile garb, it's much more.How do they come up with who get an award? Who are the judges? After all these years of making vinyl LP's how come record companies never mentioned this problem? a company that also says you can hear wall outlets and plugs. Why don't they have a thermodynamics compensator machine. In the latest issue of LIVE SOUND magazine, live events sound is influenced by teh thermodynamics of teh event, heat, humidty, all effect teh sound playing into the large area. They didn't mention wires at all, but actually science in how dense air versus thin air makes sound travle at different velocitys etc.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Since it's capable of completely demagetizing a 50 pound hunk of tool steel, I am quite sure that it would work quite well for demagnetizing a CD or LP.

This passage would suggest that it might not be ideal:

"Amazingly, optical discs actually magnetize as they play. A magnetic field is induced as they spin. Other so-called demagnetizers on the market including specialist products, head erasers, bulk erasers, etc. don

Buddha
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Yeah, no way could you slowly pull an LP away from any of those demagnetizers at MSCDirect.

Time to get a look at its guts, eh?

Just out of interest, here's a pic of the inside of another Furutech product, the ETP-60 (I saw this on a discussion at another site):

I'd love to see what's inside the LP demagnetizer!

Jeff Wong
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

That's possibly a valid point, but, at the very least, it's unlikely to be as consistent.

I recall that the physical benefits (if any) with the Furutech power distributors/strips is that they're machined from solid blocks of metal and are tightly clamped to control vibrations. They likely use their nicely plated outlets as well.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Wow, interesting.

That sure doesn't look like it was machined from a solid block of metal to me.

Nice plating is good, though.

I think, with many of these products, the best enhancement involves a superior contact surface and contact area.

Cheers, amigo.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

The one that I've seen in person is -- it's very nicely machined and very heavy. I don't know what the one in the pic is, but, it looks like it must be a lower budget model.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Jeff, those tool room demagnetizers at MSC work just about the same way as any other demagnetizer. Basically they are an electromagnet that is connected to an AC power supply. It's the oscillating magnetic field that causes the item placed within the field to be demagnetized. The large one that we have at work is actualy strong enough to cause any light weight item placed on it to actually vibrate, at 60 Hz. During the next week, I plan on taking some of my duplicate CD's into the shop and try demagnetizing them. Then I can do a direct A/B test using 2 identical sounding CD players and see if there is any difference in the sound at all. Just to be as fair aas possible, I'll even shuffle the disks between players to eliminate that as a variable. I suspect that I'll just confirm that this whole thing is just a myth. Having an interest in Photography, I happen to know that a magent can be used to bend light. However, I also know that a magnet large enough to bend light enough for a practical application in photography would be very dangerous to stand too close to as it would actually pull the iron out of your blood through your skin. Since any residual magnetic field in a CD is too weak to even attract a tiny iron filing (I checked), I strongly doubt that it would have any discernable effect on the playback laser. Needless to say, I think that this particular device is of no use at all for improving the playback of either an LP or CD. However, I do have an open mind and will honestly report if demagnetizing a CD results in any change in the sound.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

That's QUALITY, they don't even spend teh time to use the screw terminals on the outlet, they just use the push in connect. While perfectly legit, it's not recomended at any pro cirlces cus of the possibly of the loss of tension over time if high current use. So much for Furutech's advanced design. High this or that. Marketing, amazing what it can sell. What a crock of hooie. Ya want quality AC conditioners without the assotred nonsense www.furmansound.com

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

They also are now mounting it with 2 screws in a box right, not just teh center screw as was previously done in metal boxes, which was allowed by NEC BUT NOW all metal surface boxes have 2 holes to make use of teh both mounting brackets on teh device. Does Furutech have UL listed products? Does Furutech know what NEC/UL requirments are. This particular product looks like a box, with outlets in it, why would vibration have any effect on an AC box? If vibration mattered, why would they just use the spring insert connection, and not teh more SECURE screw side terminals? Maybe in teh next generation of new and improved. amazing.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

In labs i vist they have MRI analyzers,for materials research super powerful magnets, roped off stand clear pace makers and others stay away. Yup, powerful magnets can do some cool and funky stuff, A toy consumer thing like this Furutech can do what to what? Hope someone opens one up, lets just see how poerful a magnet it is, how it pulls stuff out of ink.....simply amazing. $1,000 can buy a really good SACD player, THAT will improve teh sound of playback.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

DUP,

My my, three uninterrupted posts in succession .. the award for the demag product really has you all a twitter!

Hey, I noticed you didn't reply to my post (to you) about the golden opportunity at hand to expose a snake oil salesmen over the (surely) debunkable objective claims/mesurements/data that Furutech has (foolishly) published in white papers. No doubt you missed the post, it's here:

Golden Opportunity

All that left is for you to go get em' ... Coyboy!

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

It has me all a twitter too. 1800 bucks is a lot of money to spend on something that, on the basis of science, is of no use whatsoever. It also bothers me a lot, that Mr. Scull was once on staff at Stereophile and is now representing a manufacturer who is recieving such positive reviews for thier products.

Frankly, in order to prevent prospect of favoritism being percieved, Stereophile has just 2 choices. One is to avoid any reviewing of a former employees products. The other would be to insure impariality to the largest extent possible when testing a product line represented by a former colleague. In the case of this particular device, how about a simple direct A/B test. Take 2 identical CD players, with identical interconnects, connect them to a pre amp with a remote control for the source switching, some identical CD's, some treated/some untreated, and see how long it is before the reviewer becomes totally confused as to which he is listening to.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Right, white papers, that's the answer to everything dreamed up in a sales meeting. Do these things work differently in differnt lngitudes and latitudes, doesn't the earth have different magnetic properties in different places? Wouldn't this effect just how the magic works. Don't different maker sof Cd and LPs have different suppliers maybe they have different levels of magnetism. And if sold in Europe, what heavy magnetic metals are not allowed in teh inks? No Furutech white paper mentions the possibilty of disc makers conforming RoHS have no magnetic metals in their inks, labels. Maybe this problem went away years ago, while Furutech was doing"research". did anyone tell them? And finally, does this demag need a replacement AC line cord to work better. all these questions, prevent me from ordering one. I want to know I have the best demag available. What's the warranty anyway?

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
What is in Nano fluid?

Nanos.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
It has me all a twitter too. 1800 bucks is a lot of money to spend on something that, on the basis of science, is of no use whatsoever. It also bothers me a lot, that was once on staff at Stereophile and is now representing a manufacturer who is recieving such positive reviews for thier products.

Frankly, in order to prevent prospect of favoritism being percieved, Stereophile has just 2 choices. One is to avoid any reviewing of a former employees products. The other would be to insure impariality to the largest extent possible when testing a product line represented by a former colleague. In the case of this particular device, how about a simple direct A/B test. Take 2 identical CD players, with identical interconnects, connect them to a pre amp with a remote control for the source switching, some identical CD's, some treated/some untreated, and see how long it is before the reviewer becomes totally confused as to which he is listening to.

Give me a break, what you want them to do, delete Scull's post because he used to write for Stereophile? It's an entirely appropriate announcement and in the proper forum as well ... to suppose otherwise would be to imagine that Stereophile examined all such posts and further that they endorsed the products in posts they allowed ... ridiculous!

Look, the challenge posed to DUP, and now to you, is to take the company to task for thier objective claims, e.g. for example the claim that usage of the product yields reduced Read Error Rates in CFDs for one ... they have published data to support this claim!

Point is that (amateur) objectivists are big on claims ... no basis in science, no objective evidence, and on and on ... yet here we have a manufacturer that publishes data to back claims and you guys haven't changed you tune one iota. Come back with counter evidence, demonstrate the that the claims/data are bogus and you'll have something!

... BTW, don't like the price? ... there's cheaper alternatives including bulk tape erasers that, at least my limited experimentation leads me to believe, are nearly as effective as a Bedini Quadri-Beam; I beleive bulk erasers can be had for $25-50, a Bedini either $100 or $200 depending upon model.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Yeah, no way could you slowly pull an LP away from any of those demagnetizers at MSCDirect.

Time to get a look at its guts, eh?

Just out of interest, here's a pic of the inside of another Furutech product, the ETP-60 (I saw this on a discussion at another site):

I'd love to see what's inside the LP demagnetizer!

You know what even more amazing ... those Furutech line conditioners are rather good it seems. Mind you this is second hand information as it comes from a buddy that has a rather nice system and who has owned many different line conditioners, including AC re-generators (if that's the correct term, i.e. PS Audio products), yet he just purchased a e-TP80 and is thrilled!

Further it's not exactly a secret that how they work has a lot to do with the damping material in the box, see for example this review ... Oh look, it's that Scull fellow himself letting the nasty secret out of the bag!

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

DUP, I have an idea. The Cable Co. is having an introductory sale on demagnetizing devices, including the Furutech model that Jonathan has introduced to this thread (and, of course, that Michael Fremer has positively reviewed). Many of your recent posts have scoffed at the possibility that any of these (and other) tweaks could improve your system. Now, seriously. These are all posts from the negative side of argument -- they argue positively for an absence of effect. As I have been saying, you have to face the possibility that you don't hear system changes very well. I am truly sorry I referred to you as "deaf," but I just couldn't resist pulling your, er, ear, since your somewhat violent prose is always putting down the positive tweaks other forum denizens can hear.

So, here is my idea. The Cable Co. offers a no-questions-asked refund policy on all their sales. Just order the damned thing (I believe you can get it this month for around $1500) and listen to it. Then, if you hear no improvements, you can write with the authority of someone who has hands-on experience with the unit. You will be able to get your money cheerfully refunded, and perhaps even gain some credibility with those of us who tend to ignore your ravings, because they always seem to argue the negative (absence-of-effect) side of the listening experience. I promise I won't call you deaf any more. Even though you still may have a few less hairs in your auditory tunnels than others among us.

I don't think it is fair to come down on Jonathan Scull for touting the unit. He has always been honest in his reviews and unselfish in sharing his expertise. He has been a friend to audiophiles everywhere, is a music lover, and is a dedicated professional. If he thinks the unit works, it probably does. Cheers, all.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Well, not presently using vinyl, and I couldn't afford the LP version as well right now, but I did just take delivery of the RD-2, and I was quite sceptical. But darn, this thing really works as advertised. Nice improvement in resolution and quietness... I'm keeping this one

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Chris, tell us about the RD-2. Is it for CD's only? How much does it cost? Pant, pant. Are you sure it's not the R2-D2? Now, THAT would GUARANTEE a sale. Seriously, my limited success with the Bedini leaves my thirst for more unslaked. I'm glad you're hearing more music (I assume, although that's not what you said -- you ARE hearing more music, aren't you??). You owe us the lowdown. Jonathan, where the hell are you when we need you? Jesus, I'm goin' to bed untweaked, and y'all know what THAT means! Fremer, you damned whore, why didn't you tell us about the cheaper model???

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Oh,come on Clifton ! Seriously now,how much better it could be ?We all know how reviewers/owners and manufacturers tend to exxagerate when it comes to stuff they use/sell.Besides,
you should know something about this particular Furutech.
Some time ago,i remember reading a review of a Furutech demagnetiser(can't remember exactly which model or where but i am sure it was either in Stereophile or The Absolute Sound,and the reviewer said that yes,it does make a difference to the sound but the thing produces so much radiation or whatever is he said,that he consider it hazzardous to his health and didn't add it to his system.
I will try to find this review and let you all know.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

We'll have to chip in and have a custom Shakti Codpiece made for Clifton -- can't have his stones irradiated now, can we?

CECE
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

To not hear things that are not happening is better than to hear things that ain't happening. Hearing things not there is a sign of other problems.

gkc
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

If you can't hear them, how do you know they're not there?

gkc
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Effective and dangerous? I must have it.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
Effective and dangerous? I must have it.

Now THAT'S my kind of woman!

Buddha
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

D'oh!

I just thought of saomething.

That gaussmeter, magnetometer test...

They gots to run those numbers while the dang record is sitting on the turntable, not just while it's on the device!

This opens up whole new avenues of "measurement."

I'd be especially interested in the meter readings of the turntables (especially the Continuum) with no record on them. Then a measurement with an untreated record. Then, measurement with the record on the pplatter after demagnetization.

Plus, we should see how the meter behaves with the record spinning on the table.

You'd think these readings would go a long way toward helping Furutech make their case.

Does that make sense to you's guys?

Jeff Wong
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

I'm not familiar with these measurement tools, or their accuracy. How long a window does it measure? What about when the fields collapse? How do we make sure we're always measuring the correct/same window? On paper, your idea makes sense. I'm not sure how well it could be executed. I'd say we need several measurements, including turntable at rest, record at rest, turntable with record at rest, turntable in motion without record, turntable in motion with record, plus, some of these variations after treatment with the Furutech. We'd need to know what possible influence the motor might make at any given time. I'm sure there are other variations we need to cover.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


Quote:
I'm not familiar with these measurement tools, or their accuracy. How long a window does it measure? What about when the fields collapse? How do we make sure we're always measuring the correct/same window? On paper, your idea makes sense. I'm not sure how well it could be executed. I'd say we need several measurements, including turntable at rest, record at rest, turntable with record at rest, turntable in motion without record, turntable in motion with record, plus, some of these variations after treatment with the Furutech. We'd need to know what possible influence the motor might make at any given time. I'm sure there are other variations we need to cover.

I agree!

We even need the measurements recorded at different times of day, as the earth's magnetic field can vary.

____________________________________
____________________________________

There was once a speaker manufacturer who demonstrated at CES, Joly, I think it was.

They used cut off horn flares from brass instruments as "horns" for their drivers.

One of their measurements was a set of graphs claiming that listening to their speakers improved one's health, and they claimed "proof by measurement" by checking listeners cortisol levels.

They measured a morning cortisol, played the system for people, then measured a repeat cortisol level later in the afternoon of the same day.

(No control values were reported. Much like the limited Furutech data.)

They showed that after listening to Joly speakers first thing in the morning was associated with lower cortisol levels late in the day.

Impressive, until you look this sort of thing up and find that almost everybody's cortisol levels go down significantly as the day progresses.

I'll give them an "A" for originality, though.

That even outrates the manufacturer who demo'd some Canadian speakers a few years back who wore a white lab coat the whole time.

It wasn't Polk, I forget who it was.

Lots of good stuff out there.

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


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That even outrates the manufacturer who demo'd some Canadian speakers a few years back who wore a white lab coat the whole time.

That's just a Canadian thing. We don't like to get out clothes dirty when we find ourselves rubbing shoulders with those geeky CES attendees

Bob

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Hi Clifton, sorry for the delay, didn't expect anyone to ask me a question hehe Yes, it's for cds, but I've done cables and plugs on it too. I got it at VH Audio where it's only $329 vs $369 at major other outlets. And that's a good way of describing it, I"m hearing more music. This, along with Walker Audio's cd treatment solution I found both do as advertised. Who can deny tweaks that work?

Chris


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Chris, tell us about the RD-2. Is it for CD's only? How much does it cost? Pant, pant. Are you sure it's not the R2-D2? Now, THAT would GUARANTEE a sale. Seriously, my limited success with the Bedini leaves my thirst for more unslaked. I'm glad you're hearing more music (I assume, although that's not what you said -- you ARE hearing more music, aren't you??). You owe us the lowdown. Jonathan, where the hell are you when we need you? Jesus, I'm goin' to bed untweaked, and y'all know what THAT means! Fremer, you damned whore, why didn't you tell us about the cheaper model???

JScull
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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


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Just out of interest, here's a pic of the inside of another Furutech product, the ETP-60 (I saw this on a discussion at another site):

Hey there! I'm back; been a long week, will announce a new client in just a bit.

Do you remember what forum you picked up the inside photo of the eTP609?

I've updated the Press Resources page of my website and included a press release on the e-TP609's Axial Locking System, which you and yours might be interested to read about. You can pick it up here: e-TP609 Press Release and the test data here: PDF of Test Data

Let me know what you think! (I know you will!)
Regards,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


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Chris, tell us about the RD-2. Is it for CD's only?... Jonathan, where the hell are you when we need you?


Hi Clifton, up to my ears winning a new client with good success. As Geralso used to say, Now It Can Be Told!

The RD-2 - sized for CDs - is no longer a product sold by Furutech. Another company has grabbed it from the patent-holder of the process who makes the boards, and they're now selling it as the RD-3! "No comment."

The deMag has a larger form factor, handles multiple CDs or other optical media, LPs of course, and it's much easier to demagnetize cables and connectors. The field it generates is larger and stronger as well.

Thanks for asking!
Best Regards,
Jonathan

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


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Who can deny tweaks that work?


I swear David Chesky threw this line to Kathleen and I a while back:

LOVE 'YA... MEAN IT!

(-"

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award

Jonathan, so the larger demag piece does a better job/more audible improvements over the RD2/3 as the field it generates is larger?

thanks

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Re: Furutech deMag Wins Innovations Award


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Jonathan, so the larger demag piece does a better job/more audible improvements over the RD2/3 as the field it generates is larger?

Better is a loaded word. Let me put it this way. The original RD-2 was optimized for a single disc, while demagnetizing cables was a bit more difficult because of its overall size.

The deMag throws a bigger, more powerful field so it can demag a number of discs, an LP, and more easily and effectively demag cables and connectors.

Does that do it for you?
Best,
Jonathan

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