Hi Listeners

Thank you for your PM's.

"michael what do we do to the player?"

First I understand why you would be shy about posting on a player that was so inexpensive. The audiophile guilt factor can play a head spin on anyone. In time though the walls will come down or you will see another audiophile club start that will be more about the sound than the pressure of the high end ladder.

the maggie

The Magnavox player is easy to tweak. (discloser) read your manual for safety info as I will not be responsible for anything thet you do to your player. All tweaks that I talk about are for my own listening practices.

Any rubber tabs or feet on anything is bad news, mine are gone. I removed my top cover and slightly loosened the circuit board screws. Circuit board screws on any component get jarred in shipping and cause the signal to shift.

The power cord and restraint have to go. Again any component that has a restraint where the power cable passing though the chassis is bad news for the sound. I hard wire mine with my Type 1 power cable and mini power plug.

At this point you have a player that you can begin to find that right stand for and choose how far you want to take your tuning.

Your more than welcome to join me on tuneland for more fun, enjoy!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Listeners

It's becoming interesting to me that the Magnavox MDV2300 has been brought up in topics and others PMing me about the unit. Interesting because of the names the MDV2300 have been called (by people who haven't used it), as if a dollar amount has much to do with sound, and the mere fact that this unit made it's way to the shelves of Walmart.

The one thing I do agree with the naysayers on, many cheaply built products can sound cheap. For example the model to follow the MDV2300 didn't hold up to the warmth that the MDV provides. Another example are many of the God awful portable CD players out there. But to be fair, we have heard some God awful audiophile players out there as well.

Why is it that audiophiles think they are better than Hi-tech audio. So stuck on names, but lets look at these names. Lets see who actually created this technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cd_player

No really, back up and read it. Learn who designed the CDP and also how they work.

The worse thing a hobbyist can do is assume, and there's a ton of this that goes on in this particular hobby, backed up with what appears to be screaming voices and tons of posturing or just plain denial. Audiophiles many times build their own logic without ever taking the time to "do". They pick a product off the shelf after reading a review of a stock product and think it's game over. For some it might be, but to the extreme listener, "stock" is a joke. High end audio stock represents a manly looking shipping box called a chassis.

Question?

Does a CDP sound the same inside the chassis as it does with the chassis removed? Don't answer unless you have "done" this. Of course not, do it, we do. Don't sit there being a keyboard theorist, trying to make a case for your logic, jump in and do. The shocking reality is just how different an "inbox" CDP sounds from an "out of box" one. Anyone who argues "this is not the case" has obviously not done it. So as I talk some about the MDV or any other player, keep in mind I'm going to call you out if your not treating this hobby with hands on. Not trying be mean or know it all, just telling it like it is from the view point of actually doing what I talk about.

I want to come back and share a few more facts, that are going to make some mad, and others happy, but hang in there, it's all about having fun with this hobby.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Ron Said

"However, in this case, I think the Magnavox is just poor quality and so NEEDS all of these tweaks done to it for it to sound decent. One post image comes to the forefront on the website: a gentleman has a picture on Tuneland of the Magnavox with a roughly 2 FOOT LONG metal rod coming down and resting like an upright vertical enormous pencil on the transport so as to "quiet it". That to me is just a smart individual overcoming the inherent shortcomings of a poorly designed unit with a radical engineering approach of sorts that fixes the deficiency."

mg

I realize your new to the hobby so let me share with you what the 2 foot long metal pencil (lol) is.

If you lookup some of the reviews on my products, Widescreen Review, Stereophile, TAS, Video Mag, Audio Mag, In Terms of Music and a few others, you will find that in the late 80's early 90's I introduced "Top Tuning" to the industry. This is a technology that allows the vibratory energy to travel up-ward as well as down. Back then it was called "Clamping". There was the ClampRak the Amp Clamp and a few others. Harry Pearson, used them in some of his reviews with products ranging over $20,000.00, And we custom built these for probably as many as 4 or 5 thousand high end audio clients, mostly used on super hi-end gear.

As I told you, we should talk about some of these issues on TuneLand where people who are and have been actively tuning for a long time can jump in on the conversation as well.

What you saw with that particular picture was the one custom designed for that particular unit MDV 2300, but we have them at all kinds of weights, densities and designs (and price-tags). You also saw a Top Tuning Rod, which is actually 9" long, and that particular one was made out of spun wood. If you look closely, you will see several holes in the Tuning Board. These are so the listener can choose where they wish to do their tuning from on the unit. It wasn't something made to hold the unit stable LOL. 4 corner rods and 1 tuning rod not even screwed in at the Tuning Board would hold anything stable. Take another look my friend with a more "open" engineering mind and see what the Transfer Canopy really is.

I'm enjoying your enthusiasm Ron, and apperiate that you are collecting info from many sides and angles of this hobby, however you might want to try this approach if I may say. Instead of judging something before exploring what it is, say "what the heck is that" first. The Canopy you were looking at had nothing to do with a cheap CDP needing helped or fixed. It's part of a method we have been using on equipment at all price ranges and designs in the home, pro, industrial and computer world for a long time. I believe it would be a little wiser to ask questions first. It saves time and brain power. Most of all it saves the industry being pulled into assumptions instead of a very scientific method of vibratory tuning.

the learning curve of the human brain is a powerful thing, but the shortcut many times is to ask

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Today I was thinking about how many CDP's we have owned and worked on, and I probably went through 50 models in my mind before I started laughing. I laugh because of how we over the last 30 some years have been using "a method of listening" and not the plug & play approach to listening. Do we have a problem with plug & play? Only to the extent of our listening (extreme practices) taking us (the tuning community) to a place of puting the music absolutely first, above all other considerations, or at least with in reason to the extreme listener.

The "Devil's Advocate" approach is based on "Hypotheticals". Hypotheticals are situations, statements or questions about something imaginary rather than something real. Hypotheticals deal with the concept of "what if?"'. This is the opposite of "tuning". Tuning is based on doing, and it's foundation is "all things being equal" to start with. If I don't give the MDV 2300 as much respect as the next player, I have not done my job, as well not true to my calling. The suggestion was made, that I'm trying to make a point by using the Maggie, so I should clear this up. The Magnavox MDV 2300 wasn't chosen for price-tag or for brand recognition, or to shakeup a few audiophiles on the Stereophile forum. Quite frankly I'm not here to play audiophile, but to share a method of listening that goes beyond stock and the limitations of stock plug and play.

Perhaps there should be a thread on Audiophile Devil's Advocating vs Practical Application, which could be interesting, but I'm not here to short change any product, nore have I been for a long long time. There are listeners who depend on me to make honest judgement calls and send me products regularly to strip down and find the place of "best tuning performance", and with this they make up their own mind. Me seeing many well educated audiophiles turning to the MDV 2300 is a movement that has grown because it has been a step up for those listeners from what they were able to get out of their former references. So the whole Devil's Advocate thing might be useful for conversation, but it has little use in the "real" non-Hypothetical world.

This also should not be turned into a put down of other products on the market, as we have said we literially bring in tons of products to tune, not only for clients but also for us to explore. This extends to products past, present and in the proto stage of the future.

The real question for me is, concerning this topic, how is the Devil's Advocate used to promote the positive side of the hobby? Speaking for myself it only instills the thought of hypothetical being at the same level as practical application, and this would be called theorising, not scientifically applicable necessarily.

Real to me is, how could I make a judgement on the NAD vs the MDV 2300 based on anything but "practice". The NAD is accepted as an audiophile entry level product, which the MDV is not, but the comparison stops there in our book. Practically speaking there are a few things leaning toward the MDV 2300 being the winner in a tuning showdown. One of course being the size of transformers and their spacing relationships to the DAC parts. Second thing I would look at is the metal vs plastic chassis for DAC parts and other signal passing conduits. 3rd-ly I would be looking at the PC boards, as we have compared these two types many times in components and have sided with the ones used in the MDV 2300 over some of the materials used in other components as far as sonic range (harmonics) and frequency range. Other than these it would come down to us building a specific transfer setup that brought out the most variable range for the NAD and also for the Maggie and compare them in the context of use.

Comparing stock against stock, that's for the listener to play with, but in finding which player is "better" from a scientific point of view and not a marketing point of view is more in line with what we at MGA do. For example, if a client comes to us who wants a biggie sound stage and bolder dynamics we would steer them one way, if they came to us to achieve a particular Hi-Fi quality we would attempt to learn those qualities and designed based on those. On TuneLand you can read what the desired sound was, and how they came to the conclusion of the MDV 2300. This thread happens to be about the Magnazox MDV 2300 and so more than likely I will push to staying on that unit, however this doesn't stop someone from sending us their units, as people have and do to not only compare but build their sound.

thank you May & Ron for your points of view

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

LOL, interesting to watch people talk without "doing". LOL, interesting to see people choose where the starting point is for quality sound. LOL, interesting to watch audiophiles assume.

Many-times in this hobby the blinders go on when audiophiles attempt to rationalize: attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate".

The question for myself and for others has always been, how can I or anyone be fair with making judgements without practical application? People claiming to make informed comments only rise to the level of their own personal testing an experience. This is how methods and procedures are established. Maybe someone reading or responding wishes to make "their truth" into a belief that somehow an inexpensive product equates to cheap. They push this truth without ever exploring the possibilities, never engaging in the "doing" of the exporing. They are able to make a comment "boldly" but not able to take this same energy and put it into practice. For those the blinders of scientific proof have been put on, and their comments are as useless as an expired coupon, "looked good but never cashed in".

Sorry for those folks, but we don't look at audio the same way. I'm not here to debate, but to do. Not saying that debating can't be done, it just doesn't hold any weight for myself and others who are busy exploring music with an open mind.

Speaking as someone owning 5 stereo stores worth of CDP's and maybe more players than most audiophile reviewers I would guess to say, I find some of the comments based on the lack of practice. Not that they should not be valued, but they certainly should be put into context.

Sorry, but sometimes I do have to laugh a little at the lack of experience vs the boldness of words.

have fun listening

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Ron

Nothing wrong with wanting to have a living room feel with a concert hall sound. It's a cool goal and most of the time is what you see on these types of forums.

here is another part to this though

Most listeners I know who have more advanced rooms don't come to these types of audiophile forums. Their basic conflict is, they have rooms that go way beyond reviewer rooms and stock components, so when they come up to read most audiophile forums, it's like taking a few steps backward for them. They're not trying to be snobs, they just see beauty from a different point of view.

On TuneLand we have the full range of listeners, from those who have found that magic without hardly any tweaking at all to those who tune almost every recording. We even have those who want tunable systems and I meet with their interior designer for years before the system is built believe it or not. Those are extremely fun jobs for me, but you won't see these folks on the Stereophile forum, or on TuneLand as far as that goes. If you look at my pro setups you'll get an idea for how extreme some of these rooms get. Click on the youtube video in the MGA Studio Designs and you'll see huge studio/listening rooms that even have tunnels going through mountains to get to rooms. There are extremely serious listeners out there but you may never see them featured in audio magazines for obvious reasons. We try to keep pretty private about most of these, and even I have to wait till a video or pic shows up in some TV show, youtube, or style magazine before I would copy and post. And even then, do it very carefully, not to upset anyone. I have found that most artist and well known folks do not want to be cast members on reality shows.

I have found that the high end audio world is only part of the audiophile one. The majority of audiophiles have not heard of Stereophile, TAS or the Rocky Mountain Show or may have seen a magazine on a shelf somewhwere but never did much more than flip through. We say "audiophile" as if "high end audio" and "audiophile" were tied at the ankles, but that really isn't the case. There are many off-shoots to the audiophile hobby and industry, with the biggest being music collectors. Since files have entered the picture the audiophile has once again changed dramatically. It's almost like a new beginning and the numbers involed already dwarf high end audio.

I personally want to be right in the middle of the action, and is partial why I take components apart one piece at a time, to find their best preformance time-frame in the design. I'm not sure High-enders understand just how far the industry has come. Not the high end audio industry, but the audio industry. The industry has explored stereo, multi-channel and now is in the process of making intelligent systems that respond to the body, and are programmable. These new systems are going to and do walk right past high end audio without blinking an ear, and I'll tell you why, the room. The new audio systems on their way to you and all of us are room based. The engineering is happening from the view point of the room in, instead of the component out. The music source and amplification has been figured out, now the room and body response is what is being worked on.

Why do I go extremely simple? Because I'm here for the end result. My golden calf days have been gone for many years now, and they are still apart of my life but with the respect for what they are and what they can really "DO". Style to me is based on fads and will be changed as the human experience changes. We can choose to pick our favorite era and live within that era. The modern era however is going to be walking in a room with the soundstage and very little equipment showing. Voice commands and intelligent systems able to shape the room acoustics mechanically as well as electronically will be the new high end audio.

I enjoy breaking down components to find their best performance, but mostly I break them down to find their flexibility to match codes. The future is about variable tuning in high end audio, and flexibility in the audiophile world, at whatever level, will always reign.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

I do some gamers but they are usually pretty high end clients. To answer the Sony playstation Q, no I have not compared the two next to each other. Remember when Corey did some writing on portables? I got flooded with people sending me all kinds of smaller players. It was crazy seeing highenders ditching their players for the low mass stuff. It burned out after a year or so, but it goes to show how quick the audiophile world can spin on a dime. From what I heard through the grapevine, some were not all that happy that Corey did this. Seems it caused a fair amount of confusion in marketing. Why, do you want me to try a playstation? I haven't really been in the market but am always picking up tips here and there. Player hunting takes the wind out of me to be honest, so many units out there and I'm down to 3 rooms at this location. I'm pretty happy where we are after getting pretty lucky with the Maggie. I was pretty shocked with this bad boy. Had no idea it was going to do what it does tuned.

We have had a lot of big buck players and they flow in and out of here, right now playing Audio Note CD-3.1x/II, Accuphase DP-410, my Pro Studer standing by and a few smaller players hanging around.

Most expensive I've ever? Wow, that's a tough question, remember I've had 5 high end audio stores. I'm gonna guess the Burmester 069. It was up there. We have an extra Esoteric Audio and that might be coming over soon. On the TuneLand forum right now, not counting us, the highest price one is probably the Audio Research Reference CD9.

We'll get in players when I'm making a custom Rack for someone that sometimes are way up there in price. This usually happens after a big review comes out and someone wants us to custom tune their racks and stands. Any more puting a super product on a stock rack is a little taboo.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

hi Ron

Do you have a model number?

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Kind of a cool looking little unit.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Today I was working on a fairly advanced system in another part of this industry and I started laughing about this thread and others here. I was laughing because some people see a forum like Stereophile and think it must be the end of all ends in authorities. Today however I had to deal in the world of specifics and a group of people who wouldn't even open the pages let alone think this was a place of reference for music playback. As much as I love the Stereophile TAS audiophiles I sometimes have those days that I experience just how small this particular neighborhood is compared to the big picture of being an audiophile. Maybe audiophile isn't even the right word to use anymore. I know chapters of listeners so specialized in a particular part of the hobby and industry that are never brought up in these pages and to these folks the typical high end audio mag looks like a mail order catalog. I was reminded today like a slap in the face that these types of forums are barely scratching the surface as compared to chapters, mags and forums of listeners who get so involved in their particular interest that they can boggle ones mind with their knowledge of that interest. I think to myself why has the mainstream of the high end audio community cut itself off from knowledge. Even more I wonder how a hobby like this has been able to survive cutting itself off from "exploration", while all the time making up stories of how much they have done. Why wouldn't this chapter of the hobby be about the continual "doing", and how has high end audio been sucked into this false sense of it's ok to talk specifically about some parts and ignore the rest of what makes this hobby happen.

I think about how stupid someone has to be to call me "a pro guy" listening to a portable cassette player, when I just got done working with folks who are absolute experts in tape heads and adjustments of aligning the tape and have every smarts one could imagine about particular tape brands and runs of brands. Someone here said today "all things aren't equal" and boy are they right. Not only are all things not equal, but at best this hobby is based on so many variations we will never get to all of them in our life time. So many not only levels of listening but also so many ways took view the same recording. Picture this, this hobby of recording and playback is so variable that never will any of us truly hear what the next guy does with the same recording of any complexity. That is probably a horrible sight for some, but I say it is part of what makes this hobby magical. Spend a day making adjustments with an expert in their particular audio field and experience being born again new to explore a hobby that is nothing but a new page every day, every moment if we have the desire, will and skill.

How has high end audio become so afraid of adjustments in listening, when the rest of the serious listeners enbrace the adventure of exploring the relationships between equipment, music and listener? How has this hobby of high end audio gone so far off beat? Going from all things variable as in the musical instruments we listen to, to a system of plug & play. Fixed plug & play systems with a volume control claiming to be right and all others wrong. What's worse is doing this with the knowledge (or lack of) that all recordings are different.

I read someone up here today almost mocking the "audio code" as if it was something up for debate. An hour later I was playing with that very code and thinking how can someone claim to be an authority in this hobby and not know what the audio signal is about, and how it becomes code.

How can someone be so bold as to claim they have been around as an important part of this hobby and not understand "In communications and information processing, code is system of rules to convert information—such as a letter, word, sound, image, or gesture—into another form or representation for communication through a channel or storage in a medium." ???

How can they be so bent on their own self importance that they are willing to marginalize their reputation to proove their relevance? Instead of joining the audio community at large they prefer to build this tiny soap box and shout their importance.

Is that what this hobby is? Is it one of "not hearing more but focusing on less". So yeah, the rest of the world moves on and I find the limited viewpoints being something out of an SNL skit sometimes. Everyone is hearing something different and no one knows why? Really, that's all you got? Maybe if the mentality stepped it up a few notches from a one sound (plus bass boast) portable cassette player to the variables and what to do with them, people looking at high end audio as a plug & play joke would take this part of the hobby more serious. Maybe the guy making adjustments to his reel-2-reel being an expert in tape, would look this way more often. Than again maybe forums like these will never get out of spin cycle. Maybe it's more about the spin itself than it is "doing" the hobby of listening at a higher end level.

or maybe I just needed a good laugh

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

It's nice to have toys :)

Hi Ron

From most reporting back to me, they choose the MDV over MDV+DAC. This is more common than not. Once the players are set free, it's a matter of all the different parts involved. Meaning with an additional DAC that adds a power supply and chassis and other parts that influence the signal there comes a point, which you are experiencing on your own, that the tuning does more than the added parts. I know the industry doesn't talk about this nearly enough, but the more you tune the more you are going to understand and appreciate the word Vibratory.

I've personally done several fairly high end DACs that to be honest compared to the tuned units got their butts kicked.

I have two listeners here tonight that are pretty much in shock, and that's with their own music.

Ron said

"Through breaking in my NAD 516, and merely setting it on blocks, I have found its stock DAC to sound way better than I thought it would...I'm imagining what it would sound like with more "Variable Tuning" methodologies applied and I may use it as my own test bed of these methods; leaving no holds barred."

mg

I think if you tune that 516 up, it's going to do things that would be hard for the 516+DAC to do.

Reading others tuning adventures is some powerful and rich reading. People say "well your just promoting your site". TuneLand is much more than an audio site. It's the deepest site I know of where listeners dig into the physics of audio more than an engineering circuitry alone approach.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

Just saw this, sorry for the late response.

I've been doing a few. Right now in the systems besides the 2300, is a Mag MWD200G, Toshiba SDK1000, Sony DVPSR200, Sony DVP NS72HP, and Philips DVD702AT21.

As always, great to see you!

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

I'm not going to post pics here, but do on TuneLand. Harold gets here in about 10 days so we'll probably do a fresh round. Also when he gets his new room done he'll have most the big boys there, and will have pics. My email is michael@michaelgreenaudio.com . Have you been to TuneLand? It's really pretty cool! Some of your friends are there.

I have a question for you while we're talking. In your opinion, do you think I should have a more audiophilish (bigger buck) system that I talk about as well as all the stuff I take apart? Harold and I have mostly been having me do the strip down tuning while he has the big ticket goodies. I like it better that way so high end companies don't get mad at me, but I also realise that it sometimes might look like I'm pushing the audiophile cheapskate only. What do you think, Allen?

I think you would have a fair view about this. Let me know your thoughts if you will, thanks.

Also, if you've never been to one of my stores I started a thread on some of the brands I use to (or still do) carry. You might find it a fun journey. I have more to add, but it's been fun thinking about my high end audio obsessions over the years. http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t317-mg-audio-reminiscing-the-store

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

Thanks for the insight. It's kinda odd sometimes when I think about my job past and present. For my learning I take things apart as you know and then build them back up to find the best performance range. I know folks might get mad at me (try to keep the brands quiet) when I do this, but I truly believe the hobby is going to be redesigned. By all I have studied, I see the future of high end audio having at least one more thing added to the mix, adjustments. Cables will play a big part in this if high end audio survives. Of course it will survive, I'm joking, but it needs to rethink a few things in order to make sense to the bigger market and one of those is adjustability.

At first me coming here in almost a reintroduction way was interesting, but after a little while people started to get ahold of me saying "the michael green" which I thought was a little funny but came to understand that I went too underground and should have kept more of a presence. With this changing I'm having more conversations within the industry and the topic of variable audio is going to be front and center if the designers will move a little left of center. The industry feels if things become adjustable the specific market will become confusing. Kinda like if I ask you what these 20 cables sound like you would be able to give me specifics. But what if I came to you with a slightly different approach. Instead of 20 plug and play one setting cables, what if cable was made like Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, National all the way up to 20 brands. All of these cables having their own signatures just like the guitar brands but with incorporated adjustments, "variable adjustments". There's absolutely no doubt in my mind this is the next chapter of high end audio.

So future Allen sits there with the exact same brands and their signatures, only this time around Allen is able to make adjustments to the harmonics, space, size and timbre. Same signature, only able to dial in the variables. This my friend is as obvious as Mike Fremer loves T-tables.

Fixed plug & play to me is the fun of that particular chapter, variable plug & play will be built on that chapter with the wisdoms, methods and disciplines of the musical instrument. I put my favorite string on my favorite guitar and tune it.

I do want to show the high end again like my past stores and shows did, but this time around I want to introduce, maybe usher in is a better word, the next chapter. Not the "michael" chapter but the brand ***** variable chapter. Additive tweaks are cool (hey I'm a designer of lol) but audio products built to be adjustable is where it is at, and where it has always performed it's best with.

So, Harold and I talk about how to make this bridge work. We've already done much of the crude designing, enough to freak out the industry, shoot been doing it long enough LOL. Now we need to allow the industry to take and run. Will it happen with the old timers (of which I'm fastly becoming)? Not sure. I don't see the tank builders being willing until things become accepted as norm, then they will come around, much like they did with the CDP's. I know a lot of guys who only started doing CDP's because they had to. Same with computer audio. Things have to be presented first through the go getters, then the roll starts to happen. I saw this with RoomTuning, and the same will be with cable and equipment tuning.

So my task is, how do I set my inexpensive beside my expensive without people looking at me cross-eyed LOL? Harold and I think the answer is bring the press to the Tunable Room.

First step was to come here, second explain and show what we are doing, 3rd welcome other designers to the tuning family and next design lines of variable high end audio products in their brands. After that send them to guys like yourself to have fun with and report on. I don't see the next chapter being any harder than having a few other designers saying it was their idea all along LOL. My ego ultimately is to push the hobby I love and watch the new heros of this industry become known.

One thing I hope readers are clear on though is, I don't want folks to think we don't have or don't love high end audio. If I can talk about and show a few pictures to not have people think I only own a $39.00 player or 10, and can find a way to balance the huge mental stigma money buys into, I'll be a happy camper, and so will the hobby in the long or hopefully short run. As far as cables go.

cables are the roadway of high end audio

if one can't respect cables, one is blind to the physics of audio

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

Here's a Tunee using the ARC CD9 http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t288-greetings-from-malaysia A great listener and fun to follow his journey.

The Halo CD-1 brings the industry to an interesting place. 3 "small" discrete power supplies. The mechanics is to isolate, as much as possible, the vibratory and transformer created fields from the DAC, something the designers have obviously discovered has an influence on the sound. Although I'm reluctant to say what I did to torture this unit, one can guess by following what I do period, there are some key designing advances on display here. Whether someone is going after a particular sound, which the Halo gives, or uses the vibratory system as a tool to make the sound variable, Parasound has built a true Audiophile CDP. One that brings "the field effect" into focus. The result is a DAC that is allowed to function as a DAC, with a set Vibratory code (as much as this can be done by the enclosed case) and minimal field build up.

What Parasound & partners has done is make a CDP that has one particular sound and said "we are going to guard that sound". I found that the unit did indeed respond to tuning, but the Halo kept it's signatured sound throughout all the listening. If you like the sound of this signature, you can be sure it will show up in every recording you listen to. One of the things I noticed, in my systems, was that this signature went a long way toward removing the digital fatique factor. Parasound has always been careful about preserving "their" sound and providing the plus of an usually high degree of getting along with other mixes of components, not always but more often than not.

All high end component companies take bumpy detours and then as quietly as they can work back toward their base. Some of these companies do this for the marketplace, and others do this for the sake of breaking ground. Parasound is a ground breaker and over the years has been one of my favorites to explore. Parasound is also a company that for the most part places a true value price-tag to their components, without the audiophile compusive factor. They design their products, figure out what they are worth for the common man, and present their pricing based on that value.

the sound

Keep in mind that I tune, and don't like to be stuck in one sound. It's fun for me to listen to that sound, I just want my freedom. The Parasound Halo CD-1 was one of those signatured sounds that held my interest through the recordings in a way that didn't give me that restless feeling of needing to go do something else, and that's saying a lot. I felt like I was at the concerts as a spectator and not the house engineer. Would I have made tuning changes? Sure and did. Did I feel the need to? Nope, I was pretty happy letting the Halo take me where it wanted.

thanks for taking the time to check out TuneLand Allen! an honor to have you as a guest

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

the spinners update

Wanted to give a little update to keep this thread fresh, as I will be talking about this particular unit a bit over the next while. My 1987 Magnavox CDB-460 was one of the units made at the Taiwan factory. Of course exactly the same as the Belgium made units except for a few twist that went around in the Philips company at that time. One of these twist was choosing the TDA1541 or TDA1543 DAC. The 1541 probably gets more press as so many of the high end audio companies used this as their base. My version of the 460 happens to use the 1541 as well as the exposed wound transformer (call me lucky). I tend to look for mechanical things in product builds that many don't so when I bring up certain designing factors some might understand and be interested and the next guy say, so what, but for myself, looking for these designs are like thumbing through all the presses of Dark Side Of The Moon.

For now, after going through what felt like a hundred CDP's, and I'm sure approached 50 models this year, my sights have settled on this unit as being my "high end" representative. On the forum here I listed a few mainstream (lower end) models as to not upset any friends leaving out their names. However without naming any of the big boys, the 460 has blown by the NAD, Cambridge, Oppo and many going as high as $9500.00 units like they were sitting still. Of course the CDB-460 has been given a little help by me, but honestly not all that much, when you think about some of these price-tags out there.

I have to run to a meeting but hope to get back before too long to share more. If interested I'll also be talking on this thread http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t323-choosing-a-reference-tuneland-vegas sharing pics.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Hi Allen

Not sure it's in my best interest to go down that slippery slope. I would rather focus on the units that are the champs (best ones for tuning) not beatup on those that didn't fare so well. Not by name, not on a public forum. At the same time, if you look at the pics coming out on TuneLand, you'll be able to see the units in the background.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

For some reason Allen's question has been floating around in my mind. "what $9500.00?"

I don't know why, but there's something important in this (?). Not important that we need to put any player on the spot, but important that we get to know CDP's and what makes them tick. It's probably going to be one of those things that I will take my time with, but wanted at least to get it rolling with a little show and tell.

here's the thread

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t332-tuning-cdp-s

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

Today I recieved my CDB-480, with the Philips TDA 1543 DAC, to throw into the listening mix. Happy would be an understatement. I'm living in the world of smooth, warm & girthy digital. Something that I hear many complaining they have a hard time getting. It's no wonder the TDA 1541 and 1543 are so admired. Taking apart this unit tonight, I can't help wondering what the first CD guys were thinking. "what have we givin birth to" I would imagine. Audiophiles who choose not to give the CDP it's fair shake must not get what a CDP is and how to use it in a high end audio setting.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/

I will Allen, and when I bring in the big boys from now on I'll do a write up on their positives.

What I usually notice is, as with most of these products, they almost always have a best case set of conditions that allows them to shine. There are a few that don't add up no matter what I do, but usually there's a best situation tuning that brings the designers sound out in the open so you can hear where they were going.

if it were up to me, I'd build everyone ten listening rooms, and buy them 20 systems :)

good to see you

michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/