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Buddha
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Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of project.

Aloha,

I wonder if there's room on TV for an audiphile show like "Pimp My Room," where an audiophile has a team of 'experts' descend on his room and system and pimp it.

Or, how about an audiophile version of "Trading Spaces," where two audiophiles trade listening rooms for the weekend and try to make each others' rooms sound better...asthetics included!

Which leads to my theme for this post:

I am exiled to the hometown of HCM Audio for half of each week, and all I have here is a rental with my cast off gear.

On the plus side, there are absolutely ZERO WAF (SAF) issues.

So, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to pimp the two sub-optimal listening spaces with a budget of 250 bucks per room. To make things even more harrowing, only Lowe's, Home Depot, Target, Jo Ann's, and OSH materails are available.

For "Acousitc Impossible," here are the rooms:

Room A: 13 feet by 18 feet, plus another two feet for the bay window. The walls are sheet rock with paint. The decor on the one wall seems to be "robot murdered in bordello."

Carpet over concrete pad, and ceiling is also sheet rock.

Pics...

View from six foot wide entry to room:

View from speaker area to back of room:

View back to entry to room:

View of the long wall on right of room:

View of left wall:

View straight at speakers:

How the room sounds:

____________________________

Room B:

This room has a Pergo-type floor, same kind of walls, but more open to rest of house.

View from kitchen counter:

Gear:

Each room will be getting two 6-foot diameter Love Sacs (giant foem bean bags,) but the rest is open to tweaking.

What can I go to those stores and buy and install to get closer to a more blissful sonic state?

RGibran
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Stack a bunch of these in the corners for starters. No need to remove the packaging, they will work wonders as is and may even compliment that lovely motif

RG

Elk
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

That poor, poor robot.

Say hi to Harry and Capri.

RGibran
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

These guys are a good source for DIY acoustic panels.

ATS Acoustics

RG

smejias
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


Quote:
What can I go to those stores and buy and install to get closer to a more blissful sonic state?

I would like to see you fill these rooms (especially the "robot murdered in bordello" suite) with rows of vinyl LPs. That should help the room acoustics.

mrlowry
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

The back of the robot murder room would probably really benefit from a thrift store couch. It looks like it would be a really "live room." Said couch would help to tame it.

This might be cheating but using these pillows from Ikea http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70131936 with their optional covers and stuff a circular cut piece of thick card board into each end and then you can stack them three high in corners. Heck if there are really NO decor considerations forget about the optional coverings and just glue the card board end pieces to the foam.

A bit off topic but you should consider yourself a very lucky person to be able to include a Michell Gyro Dec in a system of cast offs.

Buddha
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Love Sac update:

Those Love Sacs are BFS's.

Now, to take Stephen's advice and get a record rack for the side wall, maybe I'll be getting somewhere!

mjalazard
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

The bean bag chairs are a great idea, both acoustically and functionally. You may need some better vibration control for the Gyro-Deck. I would use a pair of cheap marble cutting boards, sandwiched with acoustic damping material (I used sorbothane sheets, but the products used for auto sound dampening would suffice). Buy some of the adhesive-backed furniture sliders (Lowe's/Home Depot), stick 'em on the underside of the marble. You can also use adhesive-backed felt pads (at the same section as the furniture sliders) as well, if the plastic sliders move around too much. Set the turntable on the marble, leveling that carefully, and you should be good to go.
The Chario room will be really tough. A heavy rug and another bean bag may help.
An Ikea is located at:
IKEA West Sacramento
Phone: 916-371-4532
Hours: Open everyday 10am-9pm
I know that Ikea has a very lucrative tax avoidance system, thus is not paying their fair-share, but it will have alot of what you need.
Mike

mjalazard
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

By the way...how come you have more pictures hanging there than in the LV house?

Howard Feed-N-Wax is a favorite with the Audiokarma crowd. I'de try that on the Klipsch's and the Chario's...Home Depot sells it.
http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm

KBK
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

You need he Ikea record rack that I bought that AlexO hated.

4x4 13"x13" cavities for record racking. or..there is a 5x5 version.

Then a few simple reflective reductions via the fake native rug on wall trick.

Get some mat type rugs a low expense level from some asian import store that is local. This, for only the reflective hot-spots. You are to about $200, at that point.

Do NOT, I repeat do NOT put fiberglass baffles in the corners of your rooms. Health hazards for your lungs should not be in the room. Foolish in the extreme. It's called scarring the lungs on one end of the deal and predisposing them to cancer (by creating the pathway) on the other end of it. Not a good thing.

Leave the damage to your ears and lungs for the music and any extra-curricular cigarettes you might consume. Liver is for alcohol, etc.

Look up DIY tube traps and actually make some as opposed to simply feeling overwhelmed when looking at the images of how to make them. Share the $50 left over for each room on the DIY tube traps (amount of parts needed) and you are done, with tube traps to boot.

ethanwiner
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

DO, I repeat DO put fiberglass panels in the corners of your room. This is the best place for bass traps, and is absolutely safe. See this article on the American Lung Association web site:

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35439

Also, 2 by 4 foot panels 4 inches thick are much better than tube shaped traps unless the tubes are at least 20 inches in diameter. Tube traps are made using the same rigid fiberglass as flat panels, and are also not a health risk, but they need to be very large to work well to low frequencies. Tubes are also not a good choice for non-corner locations.

I'm glad I was able to clear up several misunderstandings in one post.

--Ethan

KBK
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

So not I repeat do NOT put fiberglass in your room.

But that's up to you to decide.

I can't make 1 post on this board without getting into loggerheads with Ethan?

I dunno about that. I try, but it does not work. Seemingly.

As for loose fiberglass being safe, that's a fucking joke if there ever was one.

ethanwiner
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


Quote:
I can't make 1 post on this board without getting into loggerheads with Ethan?


It's not me, it's you.

The problem is you have no idea what you're talking about, yet you feel compelled to "advise" others anyway.


Quote:
As for loose fiberglass being safe, that's a fucking joke if there ever was one.


So you know more about the health risks of fiberglass than the American Lung Association? Sure, I can accept that.

And who said anything about "loose" fiberglass? Bass traps and absorber panels are typically wrapped in fabric or plastic sheets or sometimes both.

--Ethan

ncdrawl
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


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So you know more about the health risks of fiberglass than the American Lung Association?

what sort of damned idiot would put loose fiberglass in a room anyway?? how KBK got "loose fiberglass" out of these replies is beyond me, but he seems to be quite good at putting his internet foot in his mouth.

ethanwiner
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


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what sort of damned idiot would put loose fiberglass in a room anyway??


I think his agenda is clear.

--Ethan

rvance
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


Quote:

Quote:
what sort of damned idiot would put loose fiberglass in a room anyway??


I think his agenda is clear.

--Ethan

I'm pretty sure he was responding to rgibran's funny post showing rolled, attic/wall insulation- which does contain lots of loose, exposed fiberglass. I didn't think Buddha would take rg up on this "suggestion", so I wonder about KBK's worry- but I kinda understand. As a hodcarrier in a previous life I got to work on powerplant boilers, which were lined with hard panels of fg and stuffed with loose batting between the brick work and the steel structure. If you have worked with this evil shit you know how irritating it is. It seems impossible you'll ever scrub it out of your clothes or skin. We wore masks. You don't want to breathe it in.

RGibran
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

No need to remove the plastic wraping from the rolls. Just stack em up as purchased. Works great. Perfectly safe. Don't like the look of the Pink Panther...wrap em in your preferred fabric.

Hell, I sell a respirator tweak if your still anal!

RG

KBK
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Yes, I was referring to loose fiberglass. Not some 'thing' or device that is fully leakproof and sealed.

One must also remember that such organizations as ALA are reactive in their dictums and pronouncements, not pro-active.

As for acoustics and room treatment? Due to my associations, I'm not at all allowed to engage Ethan in any sort of acoustics or room treatment debate. I have to sit and just 'take it' without refuting or challenging anything he says in an coherent manner that reflects either my knowledge or experience.

This is due to my close work, personal friendship, and deep knowledge of the practical application of the physics of the situations involved -that have been in large part originally imparted to me by a close friend and business partner. I owe it to him to keep my trap shut about what I do or do not know about the subject. I'm not even allowed to impart any information of his achievements, and some, nearly 20 years later, are still covered by NDA's with no time limit. Not even allowed to hint at what he's done or achieved. It's all quite amazing stuff, and would be fun to talk about...but hey..that's the way it goes.

In essence, I >DO< know more about room acoustics than Etahn. And far, far, far more about other 'noise' issues. Yes. But I'm not, at this time, allowed to share. Nor am I likely to be any time soon.

That does get to me at times, especially when I see stuff that 'barely' works and is considered to be 'quality' within the acoustics marketplace. Yes, it burns my ass..which is why I spend little time here on this forum. And No, Ethan, that is not a personal attack. I'm talking about the entire industry.

It would obviously be frustrating to know better about a given specific subject but to not be able to impart that knowledge to others-for their edification.

Best to not post at all and then to avoid forums like the plague, in order to keep one's stomach acid production at a reasonable level.

Even that which I have posted is already 'out of bounds' with regards to speaking on the subject. Few will understand such a 'statement' (as this last line-paragraph) and the rest will throw rocks, possibly. Such is life. Meh.

ethanwiner
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


Quote:
Due to my associations, I'm not at all allowed to engage Etahn in any sort of acoustics or room treatment debate.


I'd be glad to discuss acoustics with you, but from what I've seen 1) you're probably not up to the task, and 2) you seem unable to discuss anything without being insulting.


Quote:
Best to not post at all and then to avoid forums like the plague, in order to keep one's stomach acid production at a reasonable level.


That sounds like a perfect solution to me.

--Ethan

ncdrawl
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of


Quote:

In essence, I >DO< know more about room acoustics than Etahn. And far, far, far more about other 'noise' issues. Yes. But I'm not, at this time, allowed to share. Nor am I likely to be any time soon.

I doubt seriously you know more about anything audio than Mr. Winer, but I am absolutely convinced that you are more well versed in "egotistical blowhard". Now that you've addressed us from your lofty place, we will all be waiting with baited breath for the moment you can make public those AMAZING ideas of yours. not really., but you are entertaining in that you do not seem to have the slightest clue as to just how you come off.... One thing ive learned in all my years:
those that bark the loudest, as a general rule, ALWAYS have the smallest bite/dick/muscles/IQ score/truck/golf handicap/bank account(insert your favorite word here)hifi system/house/dog...

Might I recommend using the spell check function in firefox?

KBK
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Careful with the spelling jab, yours is off just a hair - but I don't feel I should ever slight a person over something like spelling. I was going to go back into my post and correct the spelling of Ethan's name, just now. And I will.

As for Ethan, he's been a literal problem child for this forum since near day one, the most insulting part being that he tends to not realize it.

There have even been a few spots where Ethan and I got along and had a shared laugh or two. I do have hope at those times. Heck, we might even sit and drink beer together at a show some time and have a few laughs, one never knows. I'd much prefer that.

As for the who's dick is bigger thing goes, Ethan started it, long ago and on multiple fronts.

Just remember that what one sees as being out there in the world is many (most always) times a reflection of what one is on the inside. I like to think that we have communication issues here on this forum as the whole body, gestures and tone of voice, lilt, etc are all absent. Therefore misinterpretation does run rampant. That reflective thing we all tend to do comes to the fore.

Many times I have offered Ethan a fig leaf of reconciliation, but he has brushed it aside. What can one do with that?

The big danger is also that people have a near 100% track record of thinking that what they understand in the world, their entire being's logical and emotional limits...are the actual and real limits of the world itself..when nothing could be further from the truth than that. It is one of if not the most limiting and truly insane things a person can do to their ability to learn new things, and thus move forward with their lives.

New things, by their very nature, come from places and things you do not understand and there is a near perfect chance it will upset you internally in some fashion or another. That we automatically push aside anything that might 'hurt' to learn (sometimes with great violence!-and we are and can be manipulated by this blind spot), and thus self limit our acceptance of logical function within the new.

A constant danger, it is.

To add, I truly hope Ethan does well with his business, and I expect he does. I have stated this clearly, and more than once. Observing your # of posts, you might not have read that or come across that yet. This is not about putting him down, or elevating myself. That is a zero-sum mentality, which I care nothing for.

Buddha
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Room update:

Placed some bass traps in the front. The Love Sacs seem to do the trick in the rear corners.

Some Auralex pyramid pads along the side walls, and Auralex wedges behind the seating at ear level.

No other electrical source except for the Hi Fi on the room's grid.

The room/speakers sound(s) better with Ganeshas on the left speaker, and Buddhas on the right.

ncdrawl
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Dude, please dont give auralex your money if you can help it. those products are awful. I could fill up this forum with stories about disgruntled customers, but I wont now. hit me in Pm if you want specifics. GIK, Real Traps and several others out there can do the job much better. think of Auralex as The Monster Cable Acoustics Analogue.


Quote:
Room update:

Placed some bass traps in the front. The Love Sacs seem to do the trick in the rear corners.

Some Auralex pyramid pads along the side walls, and Auralex wedges behind the seating at ear level.

No other electrical source except for the Hi Fi on the room's grid.

The room/speakers sound(s) better with Ganeshas on the left speaker, and Buddhas on the right.

Buddha
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

But me so happy!

For about 200 bucks I handled what was basically a very annoying slap echo problem, all without painting over my landlord's 'robot killed in bordello' wall.

Next up is a record rack along that same wall.

The vanilla candles also make the room sound better...

KBK
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Re: Frivolity: Pimp My Room, or maybe a "Trading Spaces" kind of

Just make sure none of your candles are from china. Lotsa nasties; The waxes are dangerously impure.

Stick to North American made candles. The quality of manufacturing of Candles in NA with respects to impurities as an issue Local manufacture are better by a huge factor.

Scented candles are a no-no for the most part.

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