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haimke
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Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

I listen to all kind of music (except hard rock, metal, trans)
Specially I like classical music, piano, violin, Beethoven, symphonies and I like it sounds emotional so my speakers should tend to classical music more.
I dont think I can buy a speaker just by going to show rooms and listen. For me, it takes long time to feel the quality. Thats is why I will buy speakers based on other people well explained opinions.
I have 4000$ for speakers and 4000$ for amplifier.
Do you know Dynaudio 25 and SF Cremona Auditor ?
If so, please tell me what would YOU buy to live with all your life and why.
Are there any other kind of speakers I should know about in this price range ?

THANKS !!

Buddha
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

Welcome!

That question is too hard.

Instead, I would say the most important thing to do is really sit and listen to your current system with your favorite discs and ponder each part of what you are hearing.

See if the cymbals just right, do the violins make certain sounds, etc...

By doing that, you will train your ear to hear things in the showroom. I know many people who just couldn't quite hear things in the showroom until we deconstructed the music and focused on each instrument. Suddenly, things became clear and decision making became easier.

If you get a chance to sit in on a live orchestra performance, ask yourself what parts of the sound grab you the most. Focus on how the live music sounds, and then see which systems best give you the parts of the music you like best.

That's a start. Then you should actually focus on sounds you don't like, and see if any speakers do those things.

I have found that in the long run, it's easier to live with speakers that don't do everything I like, but don't do things I don't like than it is to live with speakers that do what I like but include things I don't.

Bottom line: practice, practice, practice!

haimke
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

Thanks for this answer !
I think its good one. I'll make this real live show tests.

Still I cant avoid asking you,
what is better, Dynaudio 25 or Cremona auditor ?
no matter how they look like, only how they sounds.
you close your eyes in a lonely room in a lonley island.
you must stay at that room and listen to music for 4 hours every day 4 for years, what speaker would you choose ? 25 ? SF ? And Why ?

Buddha
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

Wow, one choice in the 4000 dollar range, and I have to live with it for four years...

I have a compulsive drive to look at used gear, so...

These Martin Logans at 4K would be nice:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MARIN-LOGAN-PRODIGY-ELECTOSTATIC-SPEAKERS-PAIR_W0QQitemZ5843843935QQcategoryZ14993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These Avalons at $3,100 out the door are a good bargain:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AVALON-ACOUSTICS-RADIAN-Rare-Curly-Maple_W0QQitemZ5844295807QQcategoryZ14993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

More Martin Logans. Should easily stay in budget. Martin Logans have always struck me a great speakers for classical music.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Martin-Logan-Acent-i-Dark-Cherry-Mint-warranty_W0QQitemZ5842324680QQcategoryZ14980QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you could kick your budget up a notch, these Soundlabs sound pretty darn good...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1139429243

For fun, I'd like to hear this pair and see how they are holding up. Carver Amazing...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1138311548

Another pair I'd like to hear...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1137261661

OK, so how about a "bottom line."

In the used market, I'd spend about $2,000 for a pair of Apogee Mini-Grands and then use the extra cash to bi-amp.

If paying new retail, todays answer would be the Lipinski L-707 or Devore Gibbon Super 8.

Both sound fantastic. Since I've spent more time with the Devore's, I'll go with those.

Yup, Devore Gibbon Super 8's for me.

haimke
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

Can Lipinski L-707 or Devore Gibbon Super 8 play violin as Sonus Faber cremona auditor plays ?
Is Lipinski L-707 or Devore Gibbon Super 8 good for classical music ? What kind of music they play best ?

Buddha
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

I think they are both killer for classical. In fact, the Lipinski was invented by a recording engineer to aid with monitoring classical recordings!

Monty
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

I really like Dynaudio speakers...a lot. They've been building their own speakers from top to bottom for a long time and many well respected speaker manufacturers use their drivers in their own designs. That's a pretty heavy compliment in my book.

In determining your preference for a speaker and amp combination, you might want to browse through some old back issues of Stereophile. Naturally, the recommended components issues are helpful, but also helpful is the Consumer Electronics Show issues. In these issues you will see what the manufacturers were partnering their gear with and get a general feel from the contributors as to what sounded particularly good.

I realize that isn't a whole lot to go on, but it is a very good place to start.

BTW, I think ProAc speakers and Simaudio electronics really do classical music superbly and that would be at the top of my list for consideration.

Since you lean toward classical music, it would seem important to me to have a combination that can capture the very low level dynamics and the wide frequency extremes down to 30hz while maintaining an accurate timbral balance. Imaging and the ability to toss out a very wide and deep soundstage would also be important to me so as to capture the placement of the various instruments within the obviously large orchestra area.

If you find a combination that can do that well and also avoid what is almost always the paramount issue with listening fatigue ("s" and "ch" siblants, especially in female voices) then you probably have something that can be enjoyed for a very long period of time.

smejias
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?


Quote:
I read many reviews here in stereophile.com and I am not sure I exectly understands the meaning of the words...

The Audio Glossary might help a bit. I've been using it a lot, myself, lately.

Buddha
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?


Quote:

Thanks for all the answers...At great personal risk, I'll toss in my answers...
.
Can you please explain the concept in general speakers judgment of:
.
- brightness ...Too much treble, or an inappropriate emphasis on the treble.
.
- treble ...Higher frequencies. Like the "ting" of a triangle, the upper register of the flute...if the "frequency" of a sound is an obtuse term, time to hit a physics of sound website.
.
- treble balance ...How well the treble portion of the sound is integrated with the rest. Like a wine integrating/balancing tanin and fruit.
.
- grain-free treble ...Many electrical components allow the background electrical noise into the sound, almost like very fine static...creating a sort of "coarseness" to the sound. Like a wine with too much alcohol that takes your mind off the other qualities of the wine.
.
- dynamic ...Usually used to say that a speaker can play loudly. Often also used to decribe how quickly a speaker can respond to changes in "loudness" - how well a speaker can reproduce the very fast changes in volume associated with real music. This would be like saying a Formula One car is "dynamic" compared to an old truck - it can do everything it needs to do quickly.
.
- dynamic range ...For me, how well a speaker plays both the very quiet and very loud passages and responds quickly to all the changes in between. Can a speaker be both delicate and bombastic, when required? This is dynamic range, to me.
.
- imaging ...How well a speaker creates the illsuion of three dimensions, how well it gives the illusion that the music is coming from different places in space than just from the speaker itself. How about, how well a speaker is able to recreate the sensation of the place that the original recording was recorded in.
.
- soundstage ...Like imaging, soundstage describes what the illusion of space created by a speaker was like. Was an orchestral piece presented in a way that seemed like the listener was in a concert hall, or more like a smaller or larger place? Soundstaging is how accurately one feels a speaker created the "proper" spacial illsuion in its "imaging."
.
I read many reviews here in stereophile.com and I am not sure I exectly understands the meaning of the words...
for example in dynaudio 25 he say: "its treble balance is on the forward side ...It showed an unbalanced high frequency emphasis, bringing those frequencies to my attention more and making it seem as though the sounds in that frequency range were actually "imaging" more forward than the rest of the sound. It had a frequency imbalance that I could easily notice.... In too live ...Lots of reverberation or reflection of soundwaves, without many materials that absorb sound... a room or with the wrong source ...A similarly unbalanced component, one that has the same flaws as this speaker... and amplification components, that forward quality might well morph into brightness" ...The high frequency imbalance that the speaker has can be exacerbated and made even worse, to the point of this flaw becoming even more noticeable and unpleasant... whats the meaning ?

(maybe I should say that beside me being new to stereo world, English is not my mother language too...)
why btw Dynaudio has classified as class B, because its hard to find electronics to it ? (means its easy but they will be very expansive ?)
why Lipinski got class A, is better sounds than dynaudio 25 ? does it satisfied with cheaper electronics to drive it ?

so many questions...

Monty
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Re: Dynaudio 25 OR Cremona Auditor ? ? ? ? ?

Actually, your questions and concerns are exactly the kinds of concerns that frustrate a large majority of people new to the hobby. Many people simply want great sound and simplicity without having to spend untold hours learning about audio reproduction. This is entirely understandable but, also difficult to address by simply recommending equipment that will satisfy your personal tastes and preferences, which is why almost everyone says "take it home and try it out."

However, there are some fundamental generalizations that almost always apply to selecting a satisfying system.

First would be to buy quality components...from source components to speakers and everything in-between. Your budget obviously covers this with room to spare so don't skimp on interconnects and cables.

Second would be properly positioning your speakers within your room. Little else matters if this isn't given top priority so do a little reading on the subject of speaker placement and room accoustics. This will also help in determining how large a speaker cabinet you need and how much power your amplifier needs to generate to reach satisfactory levels in your room. This will also dictate whether you will be listening in the near-field or from quite a distance which will also play an important roll in component selection.

Once you have an idea of how the above plays an important roll in component selection you will be in a better position to start reading reviews and recommendations of various equipment.

Just as an example, let's say you find a fantastic floorstanding speaker that you absolutely love. You listened to it in the store and it did everything you find appealing. You go home and find that your room requires you to place it against the wall to accomodate traffic flow. Also, you have to squeeze em in a little closer together than they were at the store. Suddenly, that fantastic speaker sounds like pure crap...no soundstage, boomy base and they sure do look overpowering in the room. You begin to realize that you will never be able to get that "magic" in your room with those speakers.

At this point, many people simply give up on trying to put together a musical system. From their standpoint, they just spent a fortune and had rather listen to their ipod.

To avoid this scenario, it is important to either educate yourself or use the services and experience of a legitimate high-end retailer.

There is a saying in the investment community, "never buy anything that you don't understand." This also applies to investing in a quality sound system. However, millions of people who know nothing about investment products reach their goals by hiring investment advisors who do know about the industry while still others prefer to do their own investing, but only after becoming confident in their ability to select investment vehicles.

I highly recommend visiting Amazon and picking up a copy of Robert Harley's book, The Complete Guide to High-End Audio.

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