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mrlowry
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The differences in power cords

Lately this part of the forum has come to be dominated by a certain member who doesn

JoeE SP9
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Re: The differences in power cords

The real problem is that changing them is a crap shoot. Unless you have a nice dealer who will lend you a couple at one time you have a problem remembering what sounds like what. DUP will be replying soon. It may be time to dig out the ignore list!

Jeff Wong
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Re: The differences in power cords

I've played with a variety of power cords over the last 11 years and have found they can alter the sound of one's system significantly. I've used ones that had a wonderful sense of rhythm, but narrowed the soundstage. Others made the midrange lush and the bass deeper and more solid, but, might've been too exaggerated. I've made ones and tried ones that made things too bright.

I would say the qualities you noted are things I've found with power cords and tweaks that I liked. I'm currently trying some cords out on my DAC, preamp and power amp and haven't made up my mind as to how they stack up to the ones I usually have in my system. They have a nice relaxed, organic feel, but, the noise floor is a bit higher than I'm used to and the presentation comes across a bit veiled. I put my usual cords back in briefly, but, they sounded a little harsh in the midrange... which could be due to them needing to break in all over again -- they've been lying dormant for several weeks while I've been checking out the new ones.

I've tried aftermarket cords on Martin Logan speakers and the transformation of the bottom end is worthwhile. Do it.

CECE
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Re: The differences in power cords

The line cord of a power conditioner is changed and you can hear a difference? But ain't a power conditioner supposed to filter etc what comes after the line cord, so that what is output from the line conditioner is cleaner, if the line cord that feeds the power conditioner is AUDIBLE, then your power conditioner is useless defective, or maybe just AUDIO GRADE oil filled, from squeezed SNAKES. How do you possibly hear all this? How How How? There is no logic in what you are saying. Think about it and let me know. The line cord of a filter box is changed and you can hear it's effects? HUH? Then the box is doing nutin' honey.

CECE
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Re: The differences in power cords

Yeah, but on guitars, did it make you able to hear what BRAND strings where being used? Do you know the sound of George L's versus Dean Markleys, or Fender own stings or Gibsons? And can you hear what SIZE strings, as they come in many varietys of thickness, for different tone. If you can define what strings are being used, then you have a system that has resolution, if you cannot your system blows, or maybe just the line cords.

mrlowry
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Re: The differences in power cords

DUP-

Your arguments are simplistic. You infer that a power conditioner will do a perfect job filtering. It simply won't (I don't care what brand we are talking about, or how much it costs) so if you can reduce the noise in the electricity going into the power conditioner then you have started a head of the game. Because after market power cords have better shielding than generic cords they will allow less noise into the power conditioner from the start.

DUP, I work hard for my money. I don't want to waste it. I didn't want to hear a difference but I listened and I did. So I made my investment in better sound. This wasn't an ego purchase for me (none of my audio gear is.) I consider myself an open-minded skeptic. To be honest I don

Jeff Wong
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Re: The differences in power cords

I suspect in almost any other forum, DUP would be considered disruptive and be banned. But, because free speech is encouraged here (and rightly so), it's unlikely this will occur. But, you may choose, as I have, to place DUP on IGNORE and spare yourself the tedium. Unfortunately, people sometimes quote him and I end up reading his nonsense anyway... but, that's better than a full daily dose.

If you're using stock cords on your Martin Logans, I highly recommend trying some aftermarket ones (ESP Essence cords made the bass taut with great pitch definition on the some small MLs.)

mrlowry
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Re: The differences in power cords

Jeff-

Please note that I did not, nor have I ever advocated banning DUP. I just appealed to him to exercise a measure of restraint. I threw some lesser aftermarket power cords on the CLS tonight that I know to be broke in and the imaging is so far outside the speakers, even the room boundaries it isn't even funny. The reason that I didn't get cords for the Logans originally were two fold. First, I feel that I will be changing speakers soon and so it is silly to spend alot of money on power cords for them. Second at the time of the original upgrade finances did not permit it. This has me second guessing the wisdom of changing the speakers.

Jeff Wong
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Re: The differences in power cords

I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting he be banned. I just haven't seen him demonstrate any measure of restraint and gave up on him.

I have often found that we underestimate what our existing gear can offer us. This is why I'm so fascinated with tweaks and aftermarket doodads that squeeze that extra degree of performance out of what I've already got. I try to push the gear to its peak before investing in a major upgrade.

Colnmary
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Re: The differences in power cords

I am not necessarily a believer in cables to any real degree, however I did buy after market Power Cords as a present to myself. I found I did hear a difference in the midrange and highs. More clarity on the vocals and the cymbols sound was clearer, I could hear the brushes on them more defined on many CDs.

My wife, who has a far more musical ear than myself, being a trained musician and a singer in her past, came home later and heard the same differences. She described them in a completely different way, but what she described was what I had heard. She needed no prompting at all, and to her ears, she said it was an obvious change.(For the better)

I wasn't expecting to hear a thing, as I have stated before, I was simply buying myself a present, and doing a 'cosmetic' upgrade.

CECE
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Re: The differences in power cords

And of course your wife knew you changed them wires right? Of course she heard the improvement, why didn't you not tell her, and see if al of a sudden she says, the thing sounds different. OK, if this forum is only for beleivers in magic, then so be it. Then the entire forum is a mere selling tool for nonsense? I quit. no reason to DEBATE any logic here, there appears to be none. Magic wins, logic looses.

Monty
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Re: The differences in power cords

.....promises, promises....

Colnmary
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Re: The differences in power cords

Yes, my wife knew, it was obvious even to a wife by the size of the Power cables, and the fact they were a birthday present from her to me.

But she heard the same sound changes I heard and described them in different terms ms, though the same changes. And without any prompting at all, or without myself injecting anything into her head. And she is not a hifi ( audio) nut, or one given to magic. She is an Optician. So she must have imagined the exact same magical changes as I did, amazing!

So we imagined the exact same magical benefits the Power Cords brought, described them in different terms... oh the power of love and marriage. It is magical.

Then again DUP, I find listening to music a magical experience most times, when it ceases to be a magical experience I think I will take up playing golf.

Jan Vigne
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Re: The differences in power cords

No need to debate logic when the logic has stopped being logical. The debate is about what is possible. DUP, you only want to "debate" what you already know and you've stopped wondering what might also be true. Bye, bye!

Ernest Burden
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Re: The differences in power cords


Quote:
And of course your wife knew you changed them wires right? Of course she heard the improvement...if this forum is only for beleivers in magic, then so be it...Magic wins, logic looses.

Magic wins, exactly. That's what high end audio is about. Finding the magic.

Hello, I'm a friend of Jeff. I'm also a perfectly nice fellow, who wants to be an audiophile except I can't really afford the gear. But I try, so I thought it would be nice to read this forum. Seeing my good friend here made me sign up.

That guy mentions 'the wife' noticing the better sound. Well, back when CDs were a new thing, and I had decent but average audio gear (Technics direct-drive was IT, right?) I went out and bought a CD player and a few discs. There were only a few discs to buy then. My wife thought I was wasting money and was not happy with me. I think I bought Dark Side of the Moon, a Bowie collection and her favorite classical performance. I played parts of the first two and she still looked angry. I played the Pachelbel Canon (it wasn't such a cliche way back when) and she tried to maintain the frown. But she couldn't. Slowly, despite herself, a smile grew across her face and she never, ever, questioned my CD player again.


Quote:
They have a nice relaxed, organic feel, but, the noise floor is a bit higher than I'm used to

Like my kids.

I never believed in power cords until Jeff and I sat down and tried a few out. Forget burn-in, we just did some A-B-C compares. And it matters.

Anyway...hello. I hope to learn a few things here, be inspired to keep my audiophile cred in a 'CD quality' world.

Jeff Wong
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Re: The differences in power cords

What a neat surprise to see you here! Welcome!

CECE
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Re: The differences in power cords

Your CD's sounded better than an LP. According to the people here, can't be. And of course you knew you where changing teh wires, why else did you hear something BETTER? Better sound ain't magic it's actually scientific and factual. the magic is in how cables scammers lift the money out of your wallet without you realizing it!!!! And when a pick pocket does it, it's a crime. Hmmm, I'd call most wire huckster pick pockets. Count the many ads for pieces of wires, all claiming some kind of bizzare superiority, based on their twist or turn. Which sounded better to you, a mountain series, a river series, rodent, or reptile series? Vacuum or air insulation. If you didn't replace teh wall device with an audio grade one, how could you possibly have gained an improvement? One of the sellers of things of the sort says, their wall outlet does amazing things that a standard Leviton or Eagle can't. I've found teh amazing thing is to take people's money based on total nonsense. Maybe you need to demag those LP's, so they sound better than CD's? What you ask, demag PLASTIC? Yupper, another magic trick, by Furu the Magnificent. I think their device was developed to empty wallets too.

59mga
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Re: The differences in power cords

I must admit that I was once one of those people who thought that a power cord was a power cord.

But then...I purchased a 3 piece system and was most pleased with it's sound. A couple months later I get in the mail a set of replacement power cords, for all three devices, along with an explanation that these new cords would improve the sound quality. And they did! Made a believer of me.

Elk
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Re: The differences in power cords

What equipment was this?

What a great manufacturer or dealer!

59mga
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Re: The differences in power cords

It was Music Hall. But you know what, I can't recall if the cords came from the dealer or MH. Doesn't matter...the service AND sound is tremendous.

CECE
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Re: The differences in power cords

A better test of if teh wire mattered would be if you didn't know if anything was changed or not.....you knew you changed them to a "better" wire, whatever that is in audio, i bet of course you heard an improvement. If the "improvement" doesn't become so obvious and it is an improvement....anyone would hear it, not just all these "TRAINED LISTENERS"...again, whatever a trained listner is. An improvement is very audible, not having to listen and keep thinking oh yeah, I hear that better...you are just telling yourself of course it's better, I changed to BETTER piece of wire. When ya go from a single amp to higher power by Bi amping, the IMPROVEMNTS are so audible, anyone who listens can hear it.....Not these so subtle things that reveiwers write on about in a full page of babble, about some mystical concepts, that don't even exist. If a power cord makes such a big improvement, that is so audibly better, that would mean your equipment in teh rest of teh system is so great, then why didn't it have teh best sounding piece of wire to begin with, since teh makers of this stuff obviously made it sound so great that you can hear a piece of wire change? Logically it doesn't make any sense..... Instead of spending money on magic wires, any system can benefit from more WATTS...not just for loudness, but it is such an audbile improvemnt in bass detail, and control, from small speakers to giants, more watts just open up the sound. Played at any lelve as before more WATTS sound better. Just like a car with 420HP feels better when you accelerate liek you are in control, it does what you want, a car with 85 HP feels like it just ain't doing it, no control....And you don't have to be going any faster, just getting there to speed is better. Like controlling the drivers, more watts available do it better. Like natural blue sky lighting at 12 noon always looks better than any artifical illumination at midnight. WATTS is the illumination of the audio world!!! More WATTS less wires.

59mga
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Re: The differences in power cords


Quote:
A better test of if teh wire mattered would be if you didn't know if anything was changed or not....If a power cord makes such a big improvement, that is so audibly better, that would mean your equipment in teh rest of teh system is so great,

Good point, DUP. What I had purchased was 3 matching pieces, from the same label. That being the case, maybe because all the power cords were replaced made the difference. I'll do a blind test and get someone to change/not change the power cords and find out if I can really tell a difference.


Quote:
then why didn't it have teh best sounding piece of wire to begin with, since teh makers of this stuff obviously made it sound so great that you can hear a piece of wire change?

It is not uncommon for a "quality" marketed item to be "recalled" to make an improvement in its' performance...home appliances, automobiles, etc., etc. A couple years ago Bentley/Rolls Royce notified their dealers that new door handles would be issued, for a certain model car, because the manufacturer located better looking door handles. It's called customer service. A better brand product does this sort of thing.

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