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geoffkait
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


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Quote:

Knowledge of the brand names of the components is by no means any help in establishing the level of sound quality of the system.

Agreed, so why does needing to know brand names figure so prominently in things like being able to hear differences between cables, or the presence of a tweak?

>>>>>>>As far as I know, noone makes such a claim.

You are quite comfortable with the notion that people need to know all the parameters present for evaluating the performance of a tweak, but comfortable again in stating that knowing brand names is not important.

>>>>Not only am I not comfortable with that notion, it makes no sense.

Your comment promotes the importance of blind listening, Geoff.

>>>>Only using your "logic."

Elk
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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That is, I'm on your side on this one.


How many times have I heard that line when I know it's not true?
This is not "controversial". Could we please get back to the main topic?


Huh?

I haven't directed anything at you, Jan.

May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


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"I thought you created tweaks that treat the listening environment and not the gear, May.

Does the Magic Paper Clip or the Coffee Table Creamer now affect the gear?

Remember, you are all about enhancing the sound that is already in the room.

Comparing lots of gear, eh? Honestly?"

The "gear" IS part of the listening environment !!!!!!! I thought you always made out that you were "fully knowledgeable" about PWB techniques ??

The Cream (as you put it the 'Coffe Table Creamer') is applied as much to the transformers in "gear", as much to the capacitors in "gear", as much to the resistors in "gear", as much to the printed circuit boards in "gear", as much to the outer insulation of cables (including AC power cables) as it is to all manner of other things in the listening environment !!! When I say there is a multitude of things which are adverse in the modern environment, I mean a multitude !!

But, treating the "gear" is NOT 'having an effect on the audio signal travelling through it' - it is affecting the way we (human beings) react to the presence of that very equipment in our environment !!!

So, yes, "lots of "gear" is compared !!!

As has been written about in the UK magazines. As has been experienced by UK Hi Fi retailers and demonstrated by Hi Fi Retailers. !! I thought you KNEW all this, Buddha - you have certainly always talked as though you did.

I will quote from three articles :-

December 1988, Jimmy Hughes in Hi Fi Answers :-


Quote:
"Some time ago, Peter Belt brought a treated amplifier for me to audition. For the record it was a little Yamaha, though it could have been almost anything. It was so good it more than gave my DNM a run for it's money, and frightened the life out of me......... The effect on the sound was little short of incredible. The Yamaha showed a clean pair of heels to the DNM comination in many important respects and it wasn't till the latter was treated similarly that some semblance of equality was restored."

October 1989, Paul Benson in Hi Fi Review :-


Quote:
"Listen through a Belt treated amplifier and you cannot believe your ears - I have heard a
May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

"Are there Belt devices that are universal (they affect everyone) and others that are not?"

Are you saying you didn't understand my "spider" example ? The whole point of the "spider" story is that different people react differently to different circumstances and experiences. NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!

What is it that you aren't understanding Elk. ?

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

Buddha
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


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But, treating the "gear" is NOT 'having an effect on the audio signal travelling through it' - it is affecting the way we (human beings) react to the presence of that very equipment in our environment !!!

I guess you really can have it both ways.

You treat the gear but not the the signal passing through the gear.

Ever notice any differences between different gear?

If so, what?

Examples?

No proprietary secrets requested, just some honest description if you've noted gear to gear variation.

geoffkait
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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Huh!!?? I'm just curious, do you live in a shack in the boondocks somewhere? Who doesn't give a 30 day money back trial period? Can you give even one example? I thought not.

Someone piss in your Wheaties this morning?

I just pointed out that money-back trial periods are good and go a long way.

That is, I'm on your side on this one.

Sheesh.

Everyone gives a 30 day money back trail period, not only tweak manufacturers, silly. And who uses the expression, "solid, no questions asked 30 day trail period?" You mean as opposed to an unsolid one? LOL

Elk
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


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Are you saying you didn't understand my "spider" example ? The whole point of the "spider" story is that different people react differently to different circumstances and experiences. NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Perhaps I should have asked the question differently.

I understood that the effect of at least most Belt devices is idiosyncratic. I simply wondered whether there were any that had a universal effect.

I now understand that all are idiosyncratic.

Buddha
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
"Are there Belt devices that are universal (they affect everyone) and others that are not?"

Are you saying you didn't understand my "spider" example ? The whole point of the "spider" story is that different people react differently to different circumstances and experiences. NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!

What is it that you aren't understanding Elk. ?

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

It's what we've been saying all along. Thanks for verifying, at long last!


Quote:
NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!

Some people need them, some don't!

Yay!

Detente!

Elk
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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Everyone gives a 30 day money back trail period, not only tweak manufacturers, silly. And who uses the expression, "solid, no questions asked 30 day trail period?" You mean as opposed to an unsolid one? LOL


"Solid"; of good substantial quality or kind.

So yes, "as opposed to an unsolid one."

Some distributors of products play games with their return policies, some hold back 15% "restocking fees," some take many months to credit accounts, etc. I'm sure you are well aware of this.

A money-back policy, honorably followed, is particularly appropriate for expensive unconventional tweaks.

If the product is worth to the consumer what he paid no one has been cheated.

geoffkait
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


Quote:

Quote:
Everyone gives a 30 day money back trail period, not only tweak manufacturers, silly. And who uses the expression, "solid, no questions asked 30 day trail period?" You mean as opposed to an unsolid one? LOL


"Solid"; of good substantial quality or kind.

So yes, "as opposed to an unsolid one."

Some distributors of products play games with their return policies, some hold back 15% "restocking fees," some take many months to credit accounts, etc. I'm sure you are well aware of this.

A money-back policy, honorably followed, is particularly appropriate for expensive unconventional tweaks.

If the product is worth to the consumer what he paid no one has been cheated.

Brilliant observations. Rawk!

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

Boooooodha! Oh, Boooooodha!

You're forgetting something, Booooooodha!

You didn't respond to this. Since you feel it is not being a troll to post the same demand or the same insult a thousand times over, maybe I'll just post this each time you ignore it until you decide to move on with the topic of the thread.

Just what will a listing of components accomplish in your view? Particularly from someone who might have numerous components which could be configured in absurdly high numbers of ways. Have you heard each component they might own in order to discern what you think of that component? In each system configuration?

Why do you want this so badly that you have been on this binge now for several years and always in threads which deal with untraditional thinking? Why do you only demand this of those members who are on the opposite side of the topic from you? What other reason could there be than it's just another naysayer demand (DBT's, ABX's, measurements, more measurements, specific measurements one individual demands, etc, etc, etc.) that stalls conversation on the real topic of the thread?

You been told "no" repeatedly, why persist? Why can't you accept that answer and move on with a discussion of the topic? Why? And, while we're on "why", why is it every weekend - every weekend! - during such threads you begin to insult every person who disagrees with you? What is it that gets into you or that you get into that makes you do this every time?

You're forgetting you posted this just a short while back ...


Quote:
Criticize, but not disclose. Yeah, that's credible.

I'll add my own "" now that you have admitted you yourself have no credibility.

Just answer the questions, Boooodha! and then we can move on to more important things, things like, why are you still amazed that people can hear cable changes?

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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Huh?

I haven't directed anything at you, Jan.

What?! Now you think I am only to speak when spoken to, Massa?

C'mon, Elk, no one is "attacking" you, just stating a fact.

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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Some distributors of products play games with their return policies, some hold back 15% "restocking fees," some take many months to credit accounts, etc. I'm sure you are well aware of this.

And sometimes customers try to return stuff they didn't buy from that store or an electronic item that doesn't operate at all or a product that's scratched or damaged and they try to weinney out of the problem by blaming someone else and getting pissed when they are told they need to pay for the repairs, exchange, discarding the dead ferret in the box, etc.

People of all stripes can be such dicks.

I'm sure you are well aware of this.

David_L
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


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People of all stripes can be such dicks.

I'm sure you are well aware of this.

Oh yes we are ALL very much aware of THAT statement

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'

Your self awareness surprises me.

Now, would you kindly stop taking the cheap laugh lines I provide you - I know they're there and I keep hoping you'll rise above the adolescent urges to, among the other juvenile things you do on this forum, copy/paste and add your Ferris Bueller funny and discuss the topic at hand rather than "Oh, loookee, I can turn this around to insult (insert name here)."

See, your trite little games aren't getting anyone but you thinking you're smart. Even Boooodha! doesn't bother to add a "LOL" or "Atttaboy!". Far from it to be exact. Booodha! didn't remember you were here until someone who disagrees with him mentioned your name.

On the other hand, Boooodha! insists - no, demands, screams and stomps his feet and then does his Jeckyll/Hyde weekend schtick when it doesn't happen immmediately - others do as he says and has the audacity to post, "Criticize, but not disclose. Yeah, that's credible."

Then he refuses to disclose why this information would be useful as anything other than yet another diversion from the discussion and why he has these J/H weekends which ultimately leave him with less credibitlity than someone with 140+ posts all slamming Ted and his system. And ... since all you seem able to accomplish is to repost "meaure the FUCKING BOWLS" every second page, that ain't much to compete with.

In short, you guys got nothing and you keep making yourself look way worse than if you just stopped posting or move on to attacking ... what? ... cables?!

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:

Quote:
NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!

Some people need them, some don't!

And some, when they have it, it turns them really nasty.

What a Norman Bates moment.

Good going, Boooodha!

Oh, mother!

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

Trying to get this back on the tracks ...


Quote:
Another aspect is even harder to quantify. The resonators attenuate ultrasonic garbage. This becomes intensely obvious once you remove them after a competent whole-house installation has settled in. Envision an alley of CRTs at some media mart. 50-some conventional televisions are powered up simultaneously. The radiation pollution is intense. You can 'hear' this noise as an uncomfortable, very obnoxious activity impinging on your brain. It manifests as a kind of electrostatic pressure. It also leeches vitality. It makes you irritable or listless. That's why the resonators beyond audio use are addictive. Once you get sensitized to living in a space that's better shielded from this noise, reverting to the pre-resonator condition becomes as unappealing as sticking your head in a microwave.

However, the ramifications aren't entirely clear cut. Consider that our human brain is an electrical apparatus. It sends and receives frequencies - thoughts. Thoughts travel through air. Ultrasonic bands are where the resonators oscillate. They can impact your mental and emotional life in unexpected ways. For example, my wife is currently working on her third book. As any novelist involved in a book knows, characters begin to live in your imagination. Throughout the day and even during your sleep, there's an undercurrent of continuous activity. The story reveals itself in preview snippets, then downloads into your conscious mind whenever you engage your process at the keyboard.

Once Franck had performed our house tuning, many things shifted. One of these had to do with my wife reporting on unexpected side effects which she initially found very disconcerting. To wit, her imaginary involvement with the present book got damped, shut down even. She literally had a hard time concentrating on the story. Even the creative urge and drive to do so had diminished. "The feeling is as though someone had swept my mind clean. It's so clean, there's nothing left to refer back to, no lingering memory of the prior writing session, no urge to pick up where I left off. Where I left off is gone. The familiar continuity has been interrupted. What was there before -- call it muse, inspiration, spirit -- is empty now. The mind feels refreshed and clear but it now is an effort to make contact again with the writing process."

The implications are very personal. Through diet or drugs, blood chemistry affects our emotions. Manipulate the blood chemistry and feelings you might consider an intrinsic part of your makeup will turn out to be chemically induced reactions. It's a nearly hardwired reflex to say "I am angry" rather than, "anger is happening". We own our feelings. Identifying with them is part of who we think we are. Likewise for thoughts. That identification is summed up in Descartes' Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. You can well imagine now the interior shock when your mental life, the thing that's closest to you, suddenly changes in subtle ways that feel alien to you and which are triggered because of some tiny passive 'harmless' devices.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/francktchang/resonators_6.html

Any comments, May?

May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
"It's what we've been saying all along. Thanks for verifying, at long last!"

Verifying what Buddha ?? What do you mean "it's what you've have been saying all along" ?? All I did was make a BLINDINGLY obvious statement that EVERYONE knows !!


Quote:
"NOTHING, gives a UNIVERSAL effect !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!"

You respond as though I have been confirming something you have been saying all along, when all it is is a BLINDINGLY obvious statement which every intelligent person knows and has probably been aware of since kindergarten !!
So, please don't try to take credit for knowing something which is SO blindingly OBVIOUS to everyone !!

Now, back to your usual theme :-


Quote:
"Some people need them, some don't!"

Your word NEED again. My (our) basic understanding is :-

Electronic equipment, transformers, capacitors, resistors, magnets, batteries, AC mains, RF, electro-magnetism, microwave radiation, numerous chemicals etc, etc, should not be there, in our environment !!! They present a problem for us (human beings). Yes, we (human beings) are managing to cope with them being there, in our environment, but coping at what COST ?? At a cost of being constantly under tension ??

What you are constantly claiming, Buddha, is that YOU, personally, are not under any tension whatsoever because of such things !! That YOUR environment is hunky dory, no problems whatsoever !! That YOU are functioning 100% within your environment (which will really be no different to anyone else's - having many of the similar things already mentioned in it), so why would YOU have to do anything to it to make things less tense for you ??

What I say, Buddha, is that if you think like that it means that you haven't YET done something, in your environment, which so changes your sound that you are 'rocked back on your heels' !! But, what YOU don't appreciate, Buddha, is that SO MANY other people already HAVE !!!!!!!!!!!! What I also say Buddha, as you know, because I have been saying it to you for some years now, is that at sometime, someday, you WILL suddenly 'do something' in your listening environment, which WILL 'knock you back on your heels' because of how the sound has improved !! What I have said to you, in the past, is that I cannot PREDICT exactly when that will happen.

You can tell when it has happened to others by their words, by their descriptions, by them saying "You are not going to believe this but you would be amazed how much better my sound is...........when I......" "All of a sudden I am hearing" :-

>>> "Improvements such as notably better air, sparkle, transparency, openness, imaging, soundstaging and most importantly, naturalness and musicality, pace and rhythm, not to mention bass improvements." <<<

Nothing to do with THOSE particular people having personal "defects" which they have to 'treat' remedially !!

We are ALL, now, living within this type of modern environment. The defect is with the modern ENVRONMENT - NOT the person !!!!!!!!! The person is only reacting and trying to 'cope' within that environment.

But as I have said :-


Quote:
"Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!"

One thing you can be sure of. WE are ALL reacting, in some form or another, because we are ALL having to cope - YOU included, Buddha !!

Talking generally to others and not just to Buddha. Look at the situation from that angle and so many peoples' experiences with various and different so called 'tweaks' begin to make more 'sense, and why those 'tweaks' could be having 'an effect' !!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
"However, the ramifications aren't entirely clear cut. Consider that our human brain is an electrical apparatus." [/quote}

Exactly as I have been saying, Jan. My description is of 'this electrical apparatus in our brain carrying the information of Dvorak's New World to the working memory' and that this 'electrical apparatus' can be affected just as much as it can be when the audio information of Dvorak's New World is conveyed through the actual 'electrical apparatus' of the audio equipment.

The more people in the world of audio experience improvements in their sound which they cannot explain from within conventional and acoustic theories, the more they are going to have to "think out of the box". Because "something" is going on !!!!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

Buddha
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

May, you were so close.

Not everyone requires a given tweak, but everyone requires some tweak?

Sales hyperbole.

You've gotten better as we've known each other.

Initially, you were infuriated that I called them listener directed tweaks, now you embrace the notion.

Now, the concept of remediation is upsetting to you, but there is a shift in your vocabulary toward this very thing.

Your shift away from universalism is a beginning.

I know you call it blindingly obvious now, but it took you so long, May.

Quote May: "Look at the situation from that angle and so many peoples' experiences with various and different so called 'tweaks' begin to make more 'sense, and why those 'tweaks' could be having 'an effect' !!"

The same can be said for those who have experience with the same tweaks and have experienced no improvement.

I guess, May, where you and I differ is that you pathologize those who don't hear what you claim to sell. It's pretty fool proof - if someone doesn't hear what you sell, they either have something wrong with them or need more of your product. I will persist in contending that, as you yourself say is blatantly obvious....not everyone requires such remedial intervention.

I think in a year or two, we'll see your continued shift and I look forward to meeting you there!

Cheers.

Elk
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I'm telling the moderator, a/k/a small minds . . .


Quote:

Quote:
Huh?
I haven't directed anything at you, Jan.


What?! Now you think I am only to speak when spoken to, Massa?

Then perhaps you will respond to the "Huh?" so that I can reply to your comment.

You stated: "How many times have I heard that line when I know it's not true?"

To what does this refer and is this related to the topics at hand?


"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

Elk
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Re: "Controversial discussions," odd information withholding, I'


Quote:

Quote:
Some distributors of products play games with their return policies, some hold back 15% "restocking fees," some take many months to credit accounts, etc. I'm sure you are well aware of this.


And sometimes customers try to return stuff they didn't buy from that store . . .


Absolutely true.

However, this is unrelated to controversial tweaks; it's highly unlikely that a buyer of the Acoustic ART products will try to return them to Best Buy.

It is appropriate for the purveyor of a controversial tweak to offer a trial period and to readily take back the product upon request - something which Synergistics does to its credit (as do others).

Elk
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Listening Environment Info

On the question, how are the reviewer's/purveyor's equipment lists relevant?

It's perhaps irrelevant to Belt Devices as it is the listener (not the room nor the equipment nor the direct sound prior to the eardrum that is changed).

Information regarding the room and any acoustic deficiencies are relevant to products, such as the Acoustic ART products that claim to have an impact on room acoustics.

Jan Vigne
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Re: "Controversial discussions,"


Quote:
... it's highly unlikely that a buyer of the Acoustic ART products will try to return them to Best Buy.

Best Buy would ask for a receipt if you tried to return an OEM CD player from a Chevrolet.

And, to be fair, I've just recently experienced the very best customer service I've found in years - from Best Buy.

The point I'm making is, it is not always the retailer who is less than honest and trustworthy.

Synergistics does offer full refunds and trial runs, an audition would cost you nothing.

Jan Vigne
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Re: What now?


Quote:
Then perhaps you will respond to the "Huh?" so that I can reply to your comment.

You stated: "How many times have I heard that line when I know it's not true?"

To what does this refer and is this related to the topics at hand?

What does it matter whether this refers to this topic at hand? Why are we spending so much time not talking about this topic at hand? Why not just move on instead of looking for something that isn't there?

I know what I mean, Elk, and, if I try to explain it to you, you'll just tell me that's not what I was talking about.

Elk
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Re: "Controversial discussions,"


Quote:
The point I'm making is, it is not always the retailer who is less than honest and trustworthy.


Already directly acknowledged. To quote myself, "Absolutely true."


Quote:
Synergistics does offer full refunds and trial runs, an audition would cost you nothing.


Which I already pointed out - with approval. This is very appropriate for the distributor of an exceedingly expensive, unconventional tweak.

I have every reason to believe that they honor their policy as well.

Elk
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Huh?^2


Quote:
What does it matter whether this refers to this topic at hand? Why are we spending so much time not talking about this topic at hand? Why not just move on instead of looking for something that isn't there?
I know what I mean, Elk, and, if I try to explain it to you, you'll just tell me that's not what I was talking about.


Anyone able to translate this?

English, German and French preferred, but I'll try Urdu, Macedonian or even Azerbaijani.

May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

It really is amazing how you can twist words around to suit yourself !!


Quote:
"Initially, you were infuriated that I called them listener directed tweaks, now you embrace the notion."

Sorry to disappoint you, Buddha, that I am just "NOW (this moment) embracing the notion". From DAY ONE, after we made our first discoveries, we have understood AND STATED constantly that it is the listener (the human being) who is being affected - first adversely from being in a hostile environment and then beneficially from being able to 'treat' some of those adverse conditions.

When you have referred to them, in the past, as "listener directed tweaks" you have coupled that terminology with "bias", "auto-suggestion", "the placebo effect", "imagination", "audio faith healing", "effective marketing" - in fact you are STILL linking our 'tweaks' with some sort of "effetcive marketing" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To quote you from Audio Asylum:-


Quote:
"Same with 'listener' directed tweaks, many (most, nearly all?) do not require them, they are already hearing what you are trying to convince them they need (in order to take their money.)"

You have only to read the many articles about our techniques, published in the late 1980s and early 1990s, to realise that the journalists understood full well that it is the human being who is the one being affected !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quote:
"Your shift away from universalism is a beginning."

It has always been there, from the beginning, Buddha. Most people who are interested know of the stories I have told over and over again - YES - over and over again - describing how during numerous demonstrations we have done, some people could hear one early technique have an effect but others might not, then the others could hear a different technique have an effect but the first people might not 'hear' THAT later one !!.


Quote:
"It's pretty fool proof - if someone doesn't hear what you sell, they either have something wrong with them or need more of your product. I will persist in contending that, as you yourself say is blatantly obvious....not everyone requires such remedial intervention."

Back again with the same old word "remedial" as though the people who CAN hear certain techniques improve their sound have "defects" which require the "remedial" intervention of a 'tweak'. !! I.e. Your usual way of describing it - "certain tweaks are NEEDED by some people as a "prop", a "potion", an "elixir", a "ritual" in order for them to hear what you hear quite naturally, without such things !!!!!!!!

That is why you keep coming back and using the example of a hearing aid. I.e That a person who requires a hearing aid has a "defect" which requires "remedial" intervention and likening our techniques with being a "remedial" intervention for people who have a "defect".

To quote you, Buddha, from Audio Asylum :-


Quote:
"Excellent analogy for 'listener directed' tweaks. Some may need them to experience what normal people already do.

Those with certain defects in their experiences may, indeed, enjoy employing tweaks that permit them the same enjoyment felt by normal listeners."

Are you therefore the "normal" against which all others are to be compared ??

Or could normality be how I see normality ? - "Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!"

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Re: Listening Environment Info


Quote:
"Information regarding the room and any acoustic deficiencies are relevant to products, such as the Acoustic ART products that claim to have an impact on room acoustics."

Who said it wasn't relevant, under those circumstances you have indicated ?

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Re: Listening Environment Info


Quote:

Are you therefore the "normal" against which all others are to be compared ??

No, May. I seek only to be accepting of those who both hear and do not hear some types of tweaks. I don't think Michigan is a liar, nor do I think someone who has heard no benefit from your tweaks is being dishonest, closed minded, deaf, defective, or deceitful.

I seek a place where both sides are believed. You, sadly, do not. Why?

I contend that there is a spectrum of response to this sort of thing, based on the myriad reports of variable results, ranging from "none" to "night and day."

If you look at product pentration after 40 years, I think you'd see ample evidence of Belt responders vs. non-responders. It's baffling why you persist with insisting your tweaks take people from normal to better than normal, and those who hear no difference either don't get it or require more of your tweaks (as you yourself have pointed out many times.) It's the height of uninformed arrogance.

My examples of remediation for sense information, ranging from eye glasses to hearing aids are exemplars of the value and importance of remediation, but you just keep on with the "our users aren't remedial, they're enlightened" line of marketing booshit.

On the plus side...

You've evolved toward accepting of the term "listener directed tweak"....and you are more than welcome, by the way. Now you are on the edge of accepting that there is a point of 'non-universal' tweak results, so I will ever expectantly wait your further enlightenment.

May, you have got to learn to believe those who say they hear what you do AND those who do not. Until you acknowledge the potential correctness of either answer, you will be nothing more than....yes....a marketer.

Please, open your eyes and ears. Be open minded!

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
The more people in the world of audio experience improvements in their sound which they cannot explain from within conventional and acoustic theories, the more they are going to have to "think out of the box". Because "something" is going on !!!!

Then is it fair to ask your opinion why there are still so many who so vehemently refuse to even accept the idea someone else might be happy with what they think about or even go so far as to try?

We cover the same territory in each of these threads and each thread only gets so far before the thread is thrown off track by those who distract and insult the very idea that someone else might be interested in thinking - it's not even about what they might actually try. These people are making every attempt to stop not just the products or even the free suggestions from existing, they are unwilling to allow just the very thought of something they cannot conceive of or understand to be accepted by someone else. What harm do they see happening - the Republican drumbeat of higher taxes and job losses? - if I am benefitting from something other than two dozen refrigerator doors lining my listening room?

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:

Then is it fair to ask your opinion why there are still so many who so vehemently refuse to even accept the idea someone else might be happy with what they think about or even go so far as to try?

It ain't that, Jan.

It's an inability to accept that not every tweak is needed by every audiophile.

You yourself hate Ethan so much, you vehemently call his tweaks "refrigerator doors." Why can't you accept that his tweaks work?

Would you also take umbrage at Ethan if he claimed every audiophile needed his style of tweak and if they didn't agree there is something wrong with how they listen or perceive?

You joyfully reject Ethan's tweaks while opining that not everyone accepts the universal applicability of Belt tweaks.

Why can't May, or her sock puppets like you, accept that there are audiophiles who who are happily experiencing the same sonic pleasure that she needs coffee table creme to experience? They are all liars?

The main argument between beltists and others is the pie eyed prosyletizing that beltists do claiming they hold the keys to the kingdom, while many people are already happily inisde the gates.

That's the whole crux of it.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"

Not bad. Not bad at all.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
It ain't that, Jan.

Of course it is! There are two types of bigots in this world, one type is exceptionally proud of their overt bigotry and has no qualms about expressing it loudly and frequently then calling it for what it is - simple bigotry. That type enjoys being a bigot and wants everyone to know they are a bigot just as a warning to stay away. Ethan and dup were proud of what they did.

The other type is what you do here, you make personal enemies based on nothing more than your perception they think differently than you do and you ridicule them for what you see as their inability to be as advanced as you are. Then you deny your own bigotry. It's classic stuff that's played out a hundred times a day on talk radio.

None of what you posted is true. Sorry Freako. "Refrigerator door" is not my term, ask any spouse who finds a dozen or more of the 4'X8' panels lining the walls and ceilings what they would call them. I never claimed absorption doesn't "work". Please show me where you got that idea.


Quote:
Why can't May, or her sock puppets like you, accept that there are audiophiles who who are happily experiencing the same sonic pleasure that she needs coffee table creme to experience? They are all liars?

In this case, you are the liar. Please show exactly where May has said such a thing. If you cannot, then shut up.


Quote:
The main argument between beltists and others is the pie eyed prosyletizing that beltists do claiming they hold the keys to the kingdom, while many people are already happily inisde the gates.

Ain't that just like a bigot? "I'm superior to you." Done. That's all, just that simple. "I'm superior to you." "And it's your fault for being inferior to me."

I'm not interested in the games you play to keep the discussion off topic. I came here five years ago to discuss audio and, as I've said, I can barely remember the few times when that has actually been allowed on a thread such as this.

Now, Booodha!, if you care to discuss this rationally, without insults and without your evening and weekend rants, if you can do this without telling me what I think and you can confine yourself to just audio and skip the personal attacks, then I'll discuss this with you. If you just want to be an asshole to May and a bigot to everyone else you feel doesn't think in a manner you approve of, then there's no reason to continue.

I've asked you to show proof of several of your statements. If you want to discuss this, start with those.

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Re: Listening Environment Info


Quote:
"No, May. I seek only to be accepting of those who both hear and do not hear some types of tweaks. I don't think Michigan is a liar, nor do I think someone who has heard no benefit from your tweaks is being dishonest, closed minded, deaf, defective, or deceitful."

Just WHO is not accepting of those who both hear and do not hear some types of tweaks ??????????????


Quote:
"I seek a place where both sides are believed. You, sadly, do not. Why?"

Please do NOT put words or thoughts in my direction which are NOT there and never have been and have never been expressed by me !!!!


Quote:
"I contend that there is a spectrum of response to this sort of thing, based on the myriad reports of variable results, ranging from "none" to "night and day."

"Please, open your eyes and ears. Be open minded!"

How in earth is that quote from you and what you believe in in any way different to my quote :-

>>> "Not everyone reacts universally to the same adverse thing and not everyone reacts universally to the same beneficial thing !!" <<<


Quote:
"May, you have got to learn to believe those who say they hear what you do AND those who do not. Until you acknowledge the potential correctness of either answer, you will be nothing more than....yes....a marketer.

Please, open your eyes and ears. Be open minded!"

Oh, please, Buddha, can you get past your "agenda" regarding the Belts and can we get back to the discussion !!!!!!!!!

You say that in your opinion, you don't think Michigan is a liar. I am sure that it was because Michigan was constantly having to challenge Ethan Winer's personal "agenda" regarding such as the Furutech demagnetising technique and EW implying fraud regarding such, and EW's personal "agenda" regarding such as the ART devices that got Michigan eventually banned - because the different 'threads' just went on and on because he (and others) were repeatedly having to challenge EW's personal "agenda" !!!!

This present discussion was extended when Elk asked something like "If the ART devices might not be dealing with acoustic problems in the listening environment, then what might they be dealing with.?" To which I directed him again to John A's input:-


Quote:
"could it be that they are diffracting/reflecting that RF bath away from the listener, thus improving his state of mind and his receptivity to the music?"

So bringing the listener (the human being) into the equation and therefore into the discussion!!


Quote:
"It's an inability to accept that not every tweak is needed by every audiophile."

WHO on earth (who are you actually referring to Buddha ?) has the inability to accept that not EVERY tweak is needed by EVERY audiophile

Your response to Jan :-


Quote:
"Why can't you accept that his (Ethan's) tweaks work?"

It is not a case of Ethan's tweaks working or not, it is a case that Ethan claimed - vehemently !!! that other people's tweaks DID NOT work, COULD not work because of their size or because they did not fit into his world view!!!


Quote:
"Would you also take umbrage at Ethan if he claimed every audiophile needed his style of tweak and if they didn't agree there is something wrong with how they listen or perceive?

You joyfully reject Ethan's tweaks while opining that not everyone accepts the universal applicability of Belt tweaks.

Why can't May, or her sock puppets like you, accept that there are audiophiles who who are happily experiencing the same sonic pleasure that she needs coffee table creme to experience? They are all liars?

The main argument between beltists and others is the pie eyed prosyletizing that beltists do claiming they hold the keys to the kingdom, while many people are already happily inisde the gates.

That's the whole crux of it."

Yours is an absolute classic example of "someone having an agenda" !! An "agenda" which such as Ethan's example of an "agenda" went on and on and on !! Just as yours, Buddha, is doing now !!

We don't seem to be able to have an intelligent discussion because "personal agendas" railroad any such discussion.

I see you are now asking the new contributor to the Forum "Are you Geoff, because you talk like Geoff ?"


Quote:
"OK, Geoff, is that you?

If not, Eric, then how do we explain your own mysterious appearance here and all you post about is ART Bowls and use Geoffie terminology?"

You really DO have a problem with anyone who suggests that "audio science has not yet caught up with how humans are describing 'harmonics, timbre, low level detail, depth, width, height, imaging, pacing, rhythm, transients, timing, room cues, "blackness", airiness, "musicality" (the ability to convey the emotional message in music)"


Quote:
"Many high end products, whether resonators, cables, wires, footers (under electronics) etc, suffer the same problem of "how to measure what the ear hears"?

I don't believe it's that the manufacturers don't want to measure. Although they might not know what to measure, how to measure, or have the means to measure, or have the funds to buy the highly specialized measuring equipment. But how do you measure harmonics, timbre, low level detail, depth, width, height, imaging, pacing, rhythm, transients, timing, room cues, "blackness", airiness, "musicality" (the ability to convey the emotional message in music), etc.? These are things people describe hearing, but not all are components of FR, and not all these factors can be analyzed from a simple graph. Human ears are far more sensitive with far less distortion than a microphone (which can have its own flaws). I don't believe that audio science has caught up with that, nor is there any indication it ever will. For this reason, battles continue to rage among the measurers and the listeners, with each side thinking the other are fools."

Why are people who use similar sentences to the ones I use being called "May's sock puppets" ?

I am sure that John Atkinson could not be regarded as "one of May's sock puppets" when he says similar sentences to the ones I use :-


Quote:
"I believe that I understand most of what (technically) goes on in audio - and then something happens which completely blows my mind. I wasn't expecting a difference. It just doesn't fit my world view."

I am sure the people in the 6 moons article could not be regarded as "one of May's sock puppets" when they use similar sentences to the ones I use.

I am sure that Joseph Cohen could not be regarded as "one of May's sock puppets" when he uses sentences similar to the ones I use :-


Quote:
"(There is a larger context to this discussion which has to do with the experiment we are conducting on ourselves by living in a sea of electronica (microwaves, cell phones, computer screens, etc) and toxic substances that directly affect our well being. If in fact we need a device to correct the devices that detract from our well being, then perhaps it's time to rethink the whole thing.)" <<<

>>> "I have been saying for years that the interactions between all of the devices, traces, chassis material, circuit board material and wiring in a circuit are practically incalculable, that the interactions between all of the materials in the construction of a single cable are way more numerous than can be acounted for by LCR alone, that the interactions of all of the individual components, wires, materials that make up the room and building are probably infinite. This is not original thinking but purely derivitive of what I have learned from others and what I have observed. Everything vibrates. Everything has an electrical charge. Each material is in relationship with the materials around it. This is why there is no such thing as a vacuum, even in a vacuum. There is only continuum and ever shifting relationship." <<<

>>> "Acklowledging that the RR-77 works on the system/room/individual without being directly connected or even touching points to another source of interference which I would postulate is the sum total of interactions of any given system. This new understanding can be seen as a watershed moment. It may enable us to continue working on solutions that will be more universally applicable."

I am sure that Jeff Day, describing his experiences with the Schumann Resonance device, could not be regarded as "one of May's sock puppets" when he uses sentences similar to the ones I use :-

Quote:
"It's ability to make everything more natural, smoother and more musically lifelike was a big hit with everyone that heard it........ sensation of space opened up in the recording acoustic, notes decayed in a much more natural fashion, and the edge, grit and glare I heard became more tolerable and less offensive........ The sonic artifacts of the recording process (such as soundspace, soundstaging, imaging, detail recovery, and so forth) all had a dollop of naturalness applied to them so that they enhanced the musical content of recordings (like timbre, beat, meter, tempo, tonality and harmony) so that the Hi-Fi musical experience. If anything, a listening session becomes energizing and edifying, and when a long nocturnal listening session was over I felt refreshed."

Your responses, Buddha, are looking, more and more, like a "vendetta" - not dissimilar to Ethan's "vendetta" against Furutech and ART devices and Belt devices (to name but three) !!!
A vendetta evidenced by your :-


Quote:
"The Peter Belts of this world are sly, like the serpent. They are driven off, but then always find ways to slither back into to hobby to suck the green life blood from the uninitiated
May Belt
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Re: "Controversial discussions"

You keep referring to our "Coffee Table Creamer"

I see now that a "special violin lacquer" is being referred to as being used on the ART devices. !!

A "CHEMICAL" !!!!! Wow !! A chemical being referred to as being used "on an object associated with audio and sound" !!! Wow again.

I would refer again to John A's :-


Quote:
"I believe that I understand most of what (technically) goes on in audio - and then something happens which completely blows my mind. I wasn't expecting a difference. It just doesn't fit my world view."

The "Coffee Table Creamer" you refer to, Buddha, was one of MY "I believe that I understand most of what (technically) goes on in audio - and then something happens which completely blows my mind. I wasn't expecting a difference. It just doesn't fit my world view." moments !!! When we had applied a particular chemical to a stain on a coffee table and ruined the sound !!!

Peter's "I believe that I understand most of what (technically) goes on in audio - and then something happens which completely blows my mind. I wasn't expecting a difference. It just doesn't fit my world view." moment came later !!!

When some months later when we discovered that an ingredient in the chemical we had used on the stain on the coffee table was one of Nature's "stress chemicals" - one of the chemicals which Nature used to warn of danger !!!!! And, it was whilst investigating all manner of different chemicals to see (hear) which other chemicals might be similar 'stress chemicals in Nature' that Peter discovered the opposite - a beneficial chemical - one of the chemicals which Nature uses to 'signal it's OK, you can relax, the danger has gone away '!!!! A "reassuring" chemical !!!

You can "mock" Buddha, but others are now discovering something similar - hence the "special lacquer" of the ART devices, the "special lacquer" of Dieter Ennemoser (C37), the "special lacquer" which Sonus Faber use on their speaker cabinets which they say "is friendly to audio", the ECO 3 chemical from Nordost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peter and I were just in that position much earlier than some of the others !!

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:

None of what you posted is true. Sorry Freako. "Refrigerator door" is not my term, ask any spouse who finds a dozen or more of the 4'X8' panels lining the walls and ceilings what they would call them.

Jan, dementia is a sad thing. Here's your direct quote from a few posts up this page...


Quote:

What harm do they see happening - the Republican drumbeat of higher taxes and job losses? - if I am benefitting from something other than two dozen refrigerator doors lining my listening room?

Wherever would I have heard you say "refrigerator doors?" perhaps, since you claim this was a spouse word in common parlance, you could search the forums here and find one who used that term.

Dozen or more panels?

Jan, just stop it.

Your bitchiness is reaching new peaks.


Quote:

Please show exactly where May has said such a thing. If you cannot, then shut up.

Jan if you are so unfamiliar with May's tactics, all you need to de is scan her body of work here and you will find ample "proof."

May is so threatened by anyone claiming not to need belt/Sheldrake tweaks that she just can't stand for it.

Now, Jan, this has nothing to do with bigotry. I even let Jehovah's Witnesses ring my doorbell, but that doesn't mean I'm a bigot if I don't buy the religion they are selling.

This is nothing about being 'superior.' Other than being superior to the likes of you, which is a given, this is all about some people not requiring certain listener directed tweaks. It borders on, no crosses the border, of crazy for may or her acolytes/priests/whatever persisting in claiming some universal applicability for beltism.

Who would be the bigot, the one who claims everyone needs their special brand of faith, or someone who says different strokes for different folks?

If May gets you off, good for both of you. If May's song and dance don't move you, good for you, too. Please stop with the "Belts for everybody!" bullshit, Jan.

You are just so into trying to pee in the water supply that you don't recognize taint when you see it.

Wake up.

Are you now a belt universalist?

The topic is "Controversial Tweaks." Controversial implies a lack of universality. It's the purpose of the thread. Are you calling all those people who don't own belt tweaks bigots? Are they all liars if they say the tweaks don't improve the sound of their systems? Why do you belt worshippers need to brow beat everyone into submission? EVERYONE NEEDS bELT TWEAKS?

Not gonna happen, Jan.

You aren't content that some say they benefit but others do not? Why not? Because you need remediation is no stigma. I wear glasses to read - I enjoy the effect and benefit of that tweak! It doesn't mean I will insist you need them to see the same thing or enjoy what you see as well.

Like I say to May, and she gets so angry, I don't use a hearing aid, and neither does she....yet neither of us would begrudge you using one if you felt it improved your sonic pleasure.

If someone needs shoe inserts to fix their stride, that doesn't mean you need them to walk equally well.

In Jan-World, those people who don't walk around in solidarity with reading glasses, hearing aids, shoe inserts, etc. are "bigots."

Jan-World is backward world, baby.

belt universalism is a non-starter, Jan.

My wife is the best wife there is, can't be improved upon. That doesn't mean everyone needs my wife to be equally happily married, or even has to be married, or even has to have an opposite sex life partner.

belt universalism is a losing proposition, Jan.

Other than you tossing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks, your sloganeering is tedious and tendentious.

Now, run along and find some new way to try and take things sideways. You've covered calling people who lack your religious belief "Republicans," "bigots"....what's next? We wait with bated for your next attempt to sloganize those who do not worship at your altar. Maybe you'll get lucky and Rush Limbaugh will use some terms for you to steal today.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"

Do you want to discuss audio or do you want to distract?

The quote you offered doesn't prove I do not believe absorption works. You lied. Nor does it prove I hate Ethan. You lied again. The term is not mine alone. You lied yet again! Dozen or more? Look at the photo of the RealTraps installation included in WP's review.

Stop with the insults, Booodha!

I didn't ask for your perception of May's "tactics", you've spewed those across the pages of this and other forums for years.

I asked you to supply exact proof of May's guilt. I see you cannot provide such proof.

Bigot? You've just proven you have no proof of your assertions, just what you "know" to be true. You've proven you lie about others with impunity. Why go to such lengths to deny it if it isn't true?


Quote:
Criticize, but not disclose. Yeah, that's credible.

I see you are absolutely incapable of discussing audio and must resort to your typical personal attacks to even stay on this forum.


Quote:
It shouldn't be hard. Be mature, respectful, thoughtful. You know: Don't be an asshole.

Apparently, for some, it is impossible.

Want to try again without the bigotry, lies and insults? I'm positive you can't do it.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
None of what you posted is true. Sorry Freako. "Refrigerator door" is not my term, ask any spouse who finds a dozen or more of the 4'X8' panels lining the walls and ceilings what they would call them. I never claimed absorption doesn't "work". Please show me where you got that idea.

That's ok.

I have never in my life claimed the frase "refrigerator door" was your invention. Neither have I ever said you didn't believe in absorption.

"Not bad. Not bad at all." was purely referring to Buddha's last paragraph. As I understand it, it has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. It has to do with being happy the way things are. Just my 25 cents.

Please also remember that my (and every one else's I hope) agreeing or disagreeing with different opinions has nothing to do with the person who made the post, but only with the idea or opinion presented. As I do not know any persons here IRL, I can and will not take part in any crusade. Which I wouldn't IRL either BTW.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:

The quote you offered doesn't suggest I do not believe absorption works. You lied. Nor does it prove I hate Ethan. You lied again. The term is not mine alone. You obfuscated. Dozen or more? Look at the photo of the RealTraps installation included in WP's review.

If the term is not yours alone, go through the forums here and pull a quote of someone esle using it.

It's OK if you disdain them, they aren't for everybody.

Speaking of Wes' review, he liked them.

"What I'm not uncertain about is that the RealTraps provided a real solution to my poorer listening room; now it's my better listening room. And I discovered that the wheat-colored RealTraps perfectly match Benjamin Moore's Linen wall paint, and so virtually disappear against the walls. Add my DIY mood lighting behind the corner MondoTraps and a few choice textiles pinned to the RFZ Panels and MiniTraps, and most visitors (okay, so I bought an air mattress

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Re: "Controversial directions"

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
Want to try again without the bigotry, lies and insults? I'm positive you can't do it.

Can't, can you?

So, what? this is another thing you just "know"? That I coined the phrase "refrigerator door"? How astute of you. Why not quote further into the review to show us all what WP thought of EW's personal install? Other than you just "know" I hate Ethan and you "know" I deny absorption works, why keep playing this game? It has nothing to do with my questions to you or the topic of the thread.


Quote:
Jan, please go buy a dictionary and learn what the term "bigot" means.

Oh, hell, I'll help a brother out:

"A bigot (in modern usage) is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own."

And ... ?

That definition of a bigot is what I posed as a question to May. You decided you need to defend yourself - and insult me - when I never made mention of you at all. Why bother if you didn't feel I'd hit a nerve?


Quote:
I believe some people need belt tweaks and some don't ... You and May believe everyone needs them - you two ... insist these tweaks are universal and tolerate no dissention.

So now you "know" I insist on something?! Show where either May or I have said such a thing. That's the question, Boodha!. Very simple if May is as transparent as you claim. Just show proof this is not another bigoted idea you have repeated to the point where you think it's true without any proof. Do that and then answer the other question I asked you. You've lied repeatedly and shown you are a simple minded bigot who doesn't rely on proof to "know" what you "know". Prove me wrong.

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Re: "Controversial directions"

geoff, if you're that bored, I'm sure there are other threads that could use some pictures.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"

Jan, congrats on learning a word, but you need to master the definition.

Pick youself up from idiot level, now.

You claimed 'refrigerator doors' was a commonly used term for Ethan's tweak.

I don't believe you.

No proof on my part is required.

I'm happy to read further into Wes' review...now that we've established Wes' positive take on having all those 'refrigerator doors' ruining the look of his room.

Wes feels there can be too much of a good thing, eh?

No problem!

Now, have you ever heard May say that about adding additional belt tweaks? Any point where May says going further with more belt tweaks can cause a decline in sound quality?

She just keeps insisting that if one or several of her tweaks are not effective, the answer is more more more of the same!

You have no problem with that, either, I would wager. After all, May said it.

You are slipping into gibberish, Jan. Your white hot hatered of Ethan is eating away at your soul. You know, jan, I do believe you when you say you've heard the term 'refrigerator door' used before in this way...you aren't witty enough to come up with it on your own!

Tell me, did you get it as a talking point in your marching orders from someone? If you didn't make up the term, then it should be no problem referencing a source!

Which is it? Did you make it up yourself, or was it fed to you?

(I can tell you know you are being a dipshit because you turn on the charm in a special way when running backward.)

Clock's winding down, Jan, my experiment with giving you the credibility to read your posts again is winding down...soon, you will once again slip under the waves.

Hopefully, Clark will keep you in line.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
No proof on my part is required.

And that's the point, isn't it? You don't reqire proof of anything you claim. You just "know it". You made the accusation I invented the word, Booodha!, if you want proof I did not, you'll have to supply it. You'll have to supply proof I was the first person to ever refer to anything that size and that obtrusive as "refrigerator doors". That's the point, you can't make stupid accusations without proof. You can't just be an asshole and a bigot.

Wes didn't say why he thought EW's system was not ... "musical". It might be the $150 receiver.


Quote:
Now, have you ever heard May say that about adding additional belt tweaks? Any point where May says going further with more belt tweaks can cause a decline in sound quality?

Here's another one for you to look up, when did Ethan ever say you shouldn't have more of his product? We're compiling quite a list and you are not keeping up.


Quote:
She just keeps insisting that if one or several of her tweaks are not effective, the answer is more more more of the same!

Just show where she "insists" a user must add more. That's all you have to do, Boooodha!. How many times must I make the request? Show where I insist the devices are universal.

Prove me wrong. You can't.

More stuff you "know", eh?

As you said, Boooodha! ...


Quote:
Criticize, but not disclose. Yeah, that's credible.

Stop the insults and just answer the questions or say you cannot.

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Re: "Controversial discussions"

I really can't keep up with all this misrepresentation of what I said, what I did, what I think !!!!!!!!!
When is it going to stop, Buddha ??

Regards,
May Belt.
P.W.B. Electronics.

Freako
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Joined: Jan 17 2010 - 8:29am
Re: "Controversial discussions"

You guys disagree, and Buddha and May disagree. Could we please leave it there, and move on?

Jan Vigne
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Joined: Mar 18 2006 - 12:57pm
Re: "Controversial discussions"

Move on to where, Freako?

This is where every thread of this sort gets bogged down in the "misrepresentations" (I'd call them outright lies) made by Booodha! May repeats and repeats the ideas over and over and Booodha! pays no heed. He's made up his mind and he's all too willing to call May a whore - be an asshole towards her. I think this is quite important and I would like Boooodha! to actually defend his statements with physical proof. If what he says is so obvious, there should be no problem doing so. So far I've shown more mirepresentations of what I have said, what I think and who I hate than Booodha! can defend. Let's see what he can actually prove. I'm tired of demands made on others and insults made towards others while he answers nothing.

No one is stopping you from starting another idea in this thread or responding to something someone else has posted.

Buddha
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Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: "Controversial discussions"

Jan, you are circling the drain, so your time has expired.

See you next year.

*Take your pills, your blood pressure reading on the magic screen of morphic resonance says it's too high.

Buh bye.

Buddha
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Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: "Controversial discussions"


Quote:
I really can't keep up with all this misrepresentation of what I said, what I did, what I think !!!!!!!!!
When is it going to stop, Buddha ??

Regards,
May Belt.
P.W.B. Electronics.

May, I know you may lose marketing opportunities, but you should catch up with the times.

Remediation is not a bad word.

Cheers.

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