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montysano
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compression on vinyl

Well, "Gnarls Barkley" was the last straw. A brilliant bit of work IMHO, but compressed to death, to the point where I can't turn it up to near where I'd like to; it's just too unpleasant.

So: Gnarls is available on vinyl. I own 600+ slabs of vinyl, but haven't bought new vinyl in many years. Is there more dynamic range on vinyl, or is it compressed also? Or does it vary from record to record?

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Poorly engineered over compressed sound is not exclusively a vinyl characteristic. Unfortunatly many companies continue releasing these awful sounding recordings. It's really no different than poorly done CD's. The engineers who master these awful recordings should be forced to listen to them. It all depends on the quality of the vinyl and all the other steps involved. For CD's leave out vinyl quality. All the other things are the same.

Jeff Wong
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Re: compression on vinyl

Or does it vary from record to record?

It depends on the mastering. The new Red Hot Chili Peppers CD has so much compression, the waveform looks like a rectangular block... but, you can bet that Steve Hoffman's mastering of this album on vinyl will be dynamic and have a waveform that looks like a waveform.

lemonizer
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Re: compression on vinyl


Quote:
Well, "Gnarls Barkley" was the last straw. A brilliant bit of work IMHO, but compressed to death, to the point where I can't turn it up to near where I'd like to; it's just too unpleasant.

So: Gnarls is available on vinyl. I own 600+ slabs of vinyl, but haven't bought new vinyl in many years. Is there more dynamic range on vinyl, or is it compressed also? Or does it vary from record to record?

It's good to head some kindred spirits on here!!

But the problem isnt with mastering but with radio and more recently music TV. They heavily compress things so people are now used to the mono volume style of things.

It's sadly us 'philes' who complain about it when we are the minority. It's is only us who can hear the difference on our equipment that costs >$100.

Just to add to the Chilli Peppers above, never listen to the new snow patrol album (Eyes open). I did and now I have a perm eardrum tattoo. The music was vile, then came the production. My ears have never been the same again.

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Since the Red Hot CP's are the subject. Check out the link below if you think it's only vinyl that gets compressed.

http://www.xanga.com/sonickGQ/501878133/item.html

montysano
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Re: compression on vinyl

JoeE,

Just to clarify: I know that CDs are compressed; what I was asking is if vinyl tends to be compressed to a similar degree.

montysano
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Re: compression on vinyl

Here's a corollary issue to what I posted above:

I've got decent ears, I think; I worked in the music biz back in the late '70s-early 80's, and spent a good bit of time in high end studios.

Recently, I've burned some of my vinyl to CD, using Analogue Ripper on my Mac. To my ears, it sounds even better than the original vinyl. It seems to have gained some dynamic range and some openness, sort of the best of both mediums.

Is this possible, or am I fooling myself?

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Once again it depends on the vinyl. I have some that have so little compression pre-echo is a problem. I have some (half a dozen) that have virtually no dynamic range. Most of my older vinyl seems to have little or no obvious compression. That would be a ratio of about 400 to 1 in favor of uncompressed.

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Transferring vinyl to CD is something I do for my friends and neighbors. They are happy because I remove a lot of noise and rice crispies for them. They supply the vinyl and the blank CD's. I do the work for a reasonable fee. Almost all of the transfer work I do is for LP's that have not been re-issued on CD. I have no intention of transferring my own vinyl to CD. Although I have transferred selected songs for inclusion in my party mixes.

montysano
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Re: compression on vinyl

I know this: I'm having a ball right now. New cartridge on the table, new cleaning regimen that seems to be working very well, and the vinyl is sounding fabulous. Turn it up, and it just gets.....louder. Even the wife, a huge music fan but no tweak-head like me, noticed.

CECE
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Re: compression on vinyl

Making copies for a fee? ain't that ILLEGAL!!!!????? If you are getting PAID, that would imply it's not just for your own personal use...hmmmmmmm, you do know they are watching and KNOW The musicans are losing money on their work, because of you.....not right..pay up, let your friends BUY their own CD's.

gkc
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Re: compression on vinyl

Joe, my experience matches yours. I have kept many LP's that I bought in the early 60's, and I have been buying them since, including a few of the fancy "audiophile" reissues (at 30 bucks a pop) that have been marketed since the '90's. I thus have well over 2,000 LP's, and about the same number of CD's. Vinyl, overall, wins the day for me, for dynamics and openness, as well as soundstaging. One important note. About 95% of my music is classical. I have enough pop albums to know that this genre seems to be able to "get away with" more sonic flaws than recordings of symphonic music, which demands more care in miking and equalizing: the illusion of a small group (even at ear-shattering volumes) is simply easier to get into one's living room than the illusion of a 40' X 80' stage full of all manner of instruments, playing pppp to ffff. I know some of you will object to this as an easy generalization, but what I say is from my own experience, and has nothing to do with labelling either type as inherently superior. Thus, I have no answer for Montysanto's experience in transferring vinyl to CD, or for Jeff's comments on Red Hot Chili Peppers (this is pop, right?? -- not a new Brazilian symphony orchestra??). Also, the preamp is MUCH more crucial in vinyl playback than it is in CD playback, since the latter is line-level (remember, we are talking compression, not other criteria) and vinyl involves amplifying a much, much tinier signal. Still, my vote is for vinyl, in terms of dynamic, spacious, and overall dramatic presentation of the illusion we all crave.

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

DUP, I don't see how it's illegal if they supply the vinyl and the blank CD's. The LP's I do this for are not available on CD. I make no copy for myself. I'm charging for the time and effort in using a wave editor to remove ticks and clicks and the other cleanup work done to make a good transfer.

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Here at my house "Savants Respite" vinyl rules. As a batchelor I have discovered that when I play lots of vinyl I'm more liable to wake up with last nights female friend next to me. In my experience women who care about sound prefer vinyl over CD's. Those that don't seem to be more tolerant of higher volumes before complaining when vinyl is being played.

CECE
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Re: compression on vinyl

Women worth waking up next too, want SACD.......unless of course you are hanging out with nostaglia driven women in their 60's who think it's still 1968? If you are real lucky the females only know Ipod or MP3 Like a 22 year old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

You are incorrect sir! Those who only know MP3 and Ipod are the very ones who embrace vinyl before embracing me! If you have personal knowledge in this area your wife must be a real peach!

mschnittman
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Re: compression on vinyl

This is a web page that I saved, written and posted May 2006. Given the topic of your post, I though that you may find it interesting.

Mark

JoeE SP9
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Re: compression on vinyl

Could the fact that music lovers and musicians no longer run record companies have something to do with this. Now that lawyers and accountants run those companies artistic merit and quality have lost out to the quest for profit. How come none of the lawyers that buy all that Mac gear run or own record companies?

mschnittman
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Re: compression on vinyl

"Now that lawyers and accountants run those companies artistic merit and quality have lost out to the quest for profit."

You said it. Things will change -- I just hope they do so in my lifetime.

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