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dbowker
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Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Ya know, any time you take the hyperbole to such heights you're just asking for it... might be a new paradigm, but it's always better to under sell than over sell. Tone it down a bit dude and you'll get more interested parties.

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I am still worried about silly putting running out of my nose . . .

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I'm actually underselling it. That's the humourous part.

I'm letting the Distributor leak info as he desires, in the way he desires to do. I'm entertaining myself over here, on this forum.

mcweber
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I think DUP is funny. So tell me cableman, what miracles of sonic enhancement can we expect from your new discovery?

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Tunage? What pray tell is tunage? If you mean tuning, how are you going to tune a speaker cable to the audio spectrum. The highest frequency audible is 20KHz and its wavelength is 15,000 meters. In addition, what hope would a paint salesman and a Hi-Fi store owner have, to change the principles of electrical theory?

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Just a correction:

A 20kHz frequency tone has a wavelength (λ) of 17mm or 2/3 of an inch.

A 20Hz tone has a wavelength of about 17m or 55 feet, 3 inches.

ethanwiner
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Just a correction:


No, Fresh is correct (though I didn't check his actual numbers) because he's talking about electrical wavelength. Versus acoustical which doesn't apply to signals in a wire.

--Ethan

Elk
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Wavelength

Of course! Electromagnetic wavelength.

Obviously! <head slap>

Sorry.

Then the even more fun number is the figure for 20hz, 15,000,000.000000004 meters, or about 9,233 miles.

That's one long speaker cable...

Ergonaut
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
I think DUP is funny. So tell me cableman, what miracles of sonic enhancement can we expect from your new discovery?

1. Moving the signal from the amplifier to the speaker using telepathy?

2. OFC Copper laid in trays of Liquid helium?

3. You know of the Electron and heard of the Photon ... we now have audiotrons?
Every audiotron has a quantum probability of 1 and zero -- therefore can be in the amplifier and in the audio receptors of the human brain at the same time - the audio signal merely excites the quantum audiotron that appears in both locations ... Thus our ears will no longer be necessary and through evolution over time will slide down the side of our faces and become small polips on our chin?

choose one

drtat
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

i choose #3.

and watch,, this is just a joke for the gullible. if i'm wrong, #3 me!

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I stand by my original assertion that the electrical wavelength is 15,000M. Calc as follows. Speed of light 299,792,458M/S over 20,000Hz equals 14989.6229M The thread starter has stated that he has discovered a completely new method of conduction. This would vault him into the company of Maxwell, Tesla and other pioneering scientists who have provided mankind with the means to understand and control electrical energy. That's a big claim. I'm keenly awaiting the theory here. I'm certain, however that the explaination of this "new conduction" will be the usual drivel, a bunch of misused electrical theory, inapplicable to audio frequencies and maybe some "quantum" balderdash thrown in for good measure.

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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Yupper Fresh Clip. The new "breakthrough" is ready for the Xmas selling season. And new method of condution, it replaces last month's breakthrough? I think in just a few more years, wire makers, will exceed the accomplished number of ideas and breakthroughs of Edison, Tesla, Steinmetz, and a few other notiables. Let's reveiw, wire insulation methods are all used up, seems like they tried them all each month replaced with the next months. The colors, the twists, turns, etc. Different enviormental landscapes, different reptiles, insects, large mammals, poison, non poison reptiles. Thin, thick..cellophane etc. Air, vacuum, gas, has any tried gas...or just hot air? Oh, hot air comes with all of em, so that is the standard insulation. An ex Tara "labs" dude, now you know it has to be a "real" breakthrough. note to Tara; make sure the made in LABELS are correct. Made in U.S.A. is not the same as made in CHINA, it's spelled different.

Buddha
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Gabbo.

GABBO!

GABBO!!!!!

(Krusty Kables better watch out.)

ethanwiner
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
GABBO!!!!!


LOL, I got that, but I wonder who else here did.

--Ethan

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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
I'm certain, however that the explaination of this "new conduction" will be the usual drivel, a bunch of misused electrical theory, inapplicable to audio frequencies and maybe some "quantum" balderdash thrown in for good measure.

Correct

drtat
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

hmmm...no, what i thought of wouldnt work...its all crap then to get attention

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

That life should be so simple.

TTT!

Bump!

Etc!

Lomax
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

So Mr. KBK, could you lift a tip of the veil, as we say in The Netherlands? If it truly is a remarkable product, I might even be interested to distribute it here in the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg). But if it's just OFC copper in some fancy twisting and 'dressing', you just won't make it overhere with heavy competition from our own Siltech and Van den Hul and strong presence of the foreign brands like Kimber, Transparent, MIT, QED, Nordost, Monitor Audio (Germany), Chord and IXOS... And these are just the major brands, besides numerous not-so-well-known...

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
So Mr. KBK, could you lift a tip of the veil, as we say in The Netherlands?


What a nice phrase, quite evocative.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I think the distributor for the Netherlands/etc has already been settled. Apologies. We might consider two different looking cables for Norway and Sweden, though.

Asia has been settled.

Europe and Canada are still open, possibly. The information required to find out exactly what the cables are, is already in this thread. All one has to do is be a tiny bit intrepid. I have not spoilt the US distributor's desire to do things his own way. It was slightly premature of me to start this thread, concerning his desires on release of information, etc.

The type of conduction is unique, as is the entire cable itself. So unique, no-one has ever done any scientific work in this area, other than say it simply exists and that a bit of math might be needed to model it. Now that's an understatement.

The cable, as a mechanistic and electrical model..are are bordering on being impossible to model. I don't think anyone has ever tried to model the possibilities. If they did, the cable would have already existed. This thing is so bizarre, it cascades right into chaos theory, and a gigantic pile of unknowns. This suits me just fine.

Some major problems in standard electrical theory and issues that surround audio cables (a pun!), have been, quite literally, 'done away with.' They have been completely walked around, as if they don't exist,as in this cable....they truly and simply - don't exist. That alone is mind blowing. At the same time a giant headache of all equations taken to the next level, ie..everything ^4'd to death in every way. Wot a mess, as the English might say.

What I'm saying is that this particular way of conducting electricity is so new...that NOBODY has ever done anything in this area, or even contemplated it. That kind of new.

And if-or-when you get a set of cables in your hands..and if you had a degree in Physics be it electrical, atomic, mechanical, particle, whatever..you might then feel something in your brain stirring..and something else getting torn up a bit..cuz you gots some re-thinking to do. Such is life.

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
. . . it cascades right into chaos theory

If this is literally true, I will be fascinated to learn more. Chaos in laminar flow, etc. is intriguing to say the least.

Maybe silly putty will come out of my nose.

struts
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Chaos in laminar flow, etc. is intriguing to say the least.

I vaguely remember this from school. I found the math around chaos in turbulent flow chewy enough (didntcha just lurve those Navier-Stokes equations?), chaos in laminar flow would indeed be intriguing!

Now where did I leave my Kolmogorov microscales?

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

actually, oddly enough..a device that might be perfect for modeling chaotic flow..might turn out to be..video cards. Specifically, ATI video cards. They do pre and post frame analysis for 'interpolation' or 'scaling'..as well as a 16x16 grid of analysis for the given presented frame. Just re-program the interpretation/software and use of the GPU. Super fast..super cheap. might be complex, but..it sounds doable.

Eh..perhaps I'm wrong about that and only the Teranex does pre-post frame analysis. I think that was the orginal background for the developers of the Teranex? Yes, it was..it was spy satellite video signal recovery and enhancement.

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

"The information required to find out exactly what the cables are, is already in this thread."

Where? All I recall is "tunage" and "completely new method of conduction"

"This thing is so bizarre, it cascades right into chaos theory, and a gigantic pile of unknowns. This suits me just fine."

I'm sure it does suit you! It'll save you having to explain anything.

"Some major problems in standard electrical theory and issues that surround audio cables (a pun!), have been, quite literally, 'done away with.'"

What are these "problems"? Are there some problems with AC theory that the scientific community is unaware of. Or are these "problems" that have been invented by paint salesmen and owners of Hi Fi stores to sell bogus products?

"What I'm saying is that this particular way of conducting electricity is so new...that NOBODY has ever done anything in this area, or even contemplated it. That kind of new. "

I am eagerly awaiting the publication of your scientific paper in Nature or another respected scientific journal. You're going to be famous!

"And if-or-when you get a set of cables in your hands..and if you had a degree in Physics be it electrical, atomic, mechanical, particle, whatever..you might then feel something in your brain stirring..and something else getting torn up a bit..cuz you gots some re-thinking to do. Such is life."

Looks like I'm stuck with my current framework of thinking I doubt I will ever hold one of your cables in my hand. Even if there is some sort of breakthrough in this (highly unlikely) How in the hell is it going to improve a low powered AC signal travelling ten feet from an amplifier to a speaker???????

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

From somewhere around the 5th or 6th post in the thread:

The US distribution, will be headed by Brian Kurtz, a prior incarnation was as the Head of sales and training at Tara Labs. He is now of 'Sound Mind Audio', out of Austin, Texas. 512-377-2834

http://www.soundmindaudio.com/

If one is really interested in the cables, they'd give him a call. I'm having fun with the mystery gambit. I'll not spoil it for him. I'm bursting at the seams with desire to tell people the exact technology in use. Unique it is.

Bursting at the seams as I've been sitting on about a decade or more worth of technological development, never bothering to publish or patent. Bursting not because I'm some commercial-psycho-flamboyant-Barnumesque nightmare machine, but because I like to share neat-o toys and discovery. It is only now, after many, many years of working my butt off, that I'm actually letting some stuff out. That I might be privileged to make a few dollars from it, is the icing on the cake. The joy was in the discovery/work itself. However, being derided as a crackpot for the past decade was/is wearing a bit thin. Why do people always respond with heated derision, on things that are not automatically revealed or easily discernable? Is it a lack of capacity for self reflection?

I could not explain myself over the years, on the many things I have stated, as I had no protection. I've given enough patents away (into the wild); I kept the best for myself. This is one of them.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Salt water cables!

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Salt water cables!


What's the dielectric?

Aquarium glass?

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Not quite. But a good guess.

However, 'glass' ....is very interesting.

Solidus: excellent resistive and dielectric characteristics.

Heat until liquid, or 'Liquidus' phase: It is now an excellent conductor.

The question for you, is: Why is it an excellent conductor in it's liquid phase? Why is that not the case, in solid phase?

Jeff Wong
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Hmmm... maybe conductive liquid crystal? I dunno.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Liquid crystal has temporal issues. ie, capacitance. Not good. Dissipation factor is pukingly bad. However, it is a neat material. It does cool things.

Anyway, at this point, business partners come into the room and slap me profusely about the head and face. (Don't talk shop in public!) When we start to get into the pros and cons of given materials, then proprietary knowledge, or 'hard work' on the part of the individual inventor/bizdude can come into play as 'accidental premature knowledge ejaculation'.... and give too many readers who might be in the business...far too many ideas. So we's stoppin' right there.

bjh
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Anyway, at this point, business partners come into the room and slap me profusely about the head and face. (Don't talk shop in public!)

Given what has transpired in this thread, starting with your nearly prophetic initial post, I would hope you demonstrate the good sense to listen to those (now) about you.

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Not quite. But a good guess.

However, 'glass' ....is very interesting.

Solidus: excellent resistive and dielectric characteristics.

Heat until liquid, or 'Liquidus' phase: It is now an excellent conductor.

The question for you, is: Why is it an excellent conductor in it's liquid phase? Why is that not the case, in solid phase?

Yes, glass is very interesting. in its solid phase it has resistivity that is 10 to the power of 18 higher than copper. In its liquid phase, at temperatures around 1400C the resistivity drops due to the freer movement of mobile ions. However, measuring this changing value is difficult due to the measuring electrodes becomeing polarised due to ionisation of the glass around the electrodes. Subsequently the best way to measure the resistance is using AC. This is where molten glass become s a less than "excellent" conductor. Unfortunately, there is a curve in the resistance becoming more pronounced the closer you get to DC. "Where have the kettle drums gone?!!!" would be the anguished cry of the audiophile with his molten glass speaker cables.

Anyway,KBK, you havn't answered my question. How does this "new method of conduction" benefit the man sitting in his wing back, leather buttoned char, puffing his pipe and listening to a Ben Sidran disk on his $100,000.00 turntable, via his solid silver interconnects, through his $200,000.00 15 watt valve amplifier connected to his $300,000.00 dollar Morpheus Orpheus Magnum Cum Louder speakers??????? Surely a 10' length of solid silver cables, plaited into rastafarian dreadlocks would be more than sufficient?

Where does your product fit in this picture? How much better can it be than a length of highly conductive metal wire that will pass every frequency from DC to inaudible, without significant loss, from one end to the other?

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
Where does your product fit in this picture? How much better can it be than a length of highly conductive metal wire that will pass every frequency from DC to inaudible, without significant loss, from one end to the other?


My cynical self believes that we simply are never going to learn anything of these cables from this or any other source.

A/K/A Vaporware

But, please let us know where you got your 10' length of solid silver cables, plaited into Rastafarian dreadlocks!

These I have got to hear.

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Yeah, great cables. very colourful, very danceable but ultimately, too frizzy I'm looking for some in gold now, maybe in a lacework doilie pattern.

P.S. I think I've scared KBK by answering his question about glass.......

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

You haven't scared me away. I'm not here on this forum every day. I am also under zero obligation to respond.

If you want to issue demands..first you have to Kidnap Pilot's wife. (Monty Python: Life of Brian)

Besides, forums are full of people with 'attitude', the kind they'd never push on anyone or any group, if they were actually in that person's presence. Ie, rudeness.

As I said, I was a bit premature in the announcement; the distributor wanted to do things differently, and I'm honouring that request. As well, I DID supply the information to find such things out, if one really wanted to know..

So don't give me flack over your laziness. Hmmmm?

You are being confrontational and rude. essentially, a childish thing to be doing. Your prerogative. Nothing says I have to respond to it. For it is difficult to say if your position will change no matter what the answer.

Which is why manufacturers seldom share or contribute on forums. Too much of a chance to look bad -for no reason, other than someone giving them grief - for no reason.

Both your 'handle' and 'signature' raise questions about who you are - and how you relate. Basically, I'm probably going have to ignore you, as this is, apparently, only going to get ugly.

My business partners in this venture desire for me to stay the hell off of forums-period.

The responses to this thread so abundantly show why.

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

KBK I have searched through your posts trying to find the information that you insist is there. The information that will help me understand the "completely new method of conduction" Try as I might, I can't find anything of substance. Here are the bits that have any reference to science or technical matters.


"transmission line theory

Phase coherence

method of conduction will be completely different

eliminates skin effect and propagation issues

The cable, as a mechanistic and electrical model..are are bordering on being impossible to model

This thing is so bizarre, it cascades right into chaos theory, and a gigantic pile of unknowns "

You appear to have edited the reference to "tunage" out of your first post. Anyone here can see that all you have given us with respect to an explaination of how the "completely new method of conduction" works is the usual terminology trotted out by people who want to convince us that they have some new wonder cable product. If you REALLY had something totally new as you state. Something that was going to force us all to rethink physics and electrical theory, you'd be promoting it in the professional scientific community, not here, trying to generate interest in a group of audiophiles. Not only that but your "completely new method of conduction" would probably have to have a new scientific unit of measurement assigned to it. The "Kevin" sounds a bit too close to Kelvin so maybe the "Goober" after your HiFi paint business

"You are being confrontational and rude."

I strongly disagree with this assertion, as would anyone who has read the thread. All I have requested is clarification and explaination of the outlandish claim you have made.

"My business partners in this venture desire for me to stay the hell off of forums-period."

So I have scared you off.

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

And all I remember about this thread is that I was threatened with silly putty coming out of my nose...

(Is this happens, how do I get my brains back in?)

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Fresh Clip:

I have explained the situation fully.

You are refusing to hear or absorb the answer. You seem to only desire for the one thing. That thing will not be delivered.

Whatever the case may be, I need not explicitly describe or show anything to you.

'Tunage' is a benign little juvenile ('Bill & Tedd'-ish) way of saying 'music'.

For example, go ask Wilson how they build their crossovers, or 'x' material. Ask them for explicit instructions on the manufacturing details of such, and the reasons why. You might be laughed at then thrown out of the building, in no particular order. Dave Wilson might be more kind than that, I hear he's a nice guy. But the results would be the same. Once again - in all common sense.

Besides the point that the Distributor has decided to handle the release of the product in his own way. That this situation Irks you, is largely my fault for starting this thread.

Eventually, more than enough to satisfy your curiosity will be revealed. And no white papers, no scientific literature, no math formulas, etc. The cable itself will exist, and the juxtaposition of the sonics vs the method of conduction will make the realities abundantly clear. The more physics a given forward thinking person knows, the more bemused they will be by the cable, thus, the more they will get out of it.

If it pisses you off, then stop posting.

All you are doing, in the end, is helping create exposure.

Benonymous
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

KBK, the 'High-End' is proud of you. Not only have you avoided giving anyone here any practical information about your cable, you have also trotted out a load of para-scientific babble worthy of the most adroit snake-oil salesman. This babble is a standard obfuscation technique used by the purveyors of all products that require the patronage of gullible people to survive.

"no white papers, no scientific literature, no math formulas, etc.

You wouldn't want to spoil it all with any nasty objectivism would you.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your cable and hope that you and your business partners are happy scouring money out of the wallets of people who are dopey enough to take a ride on your subjectivist merry-go-round.

My advice to anyone who is foolish enough to buy these cables (should they ever materialize) is to be brave and say "I can't hear any difference!" and demand your money back, with interest.

Any exposure I may have provided by trading posts with you on this thread have shown that your claim is spurious and your proposed cable product has no valid claim to be "a totally new method of conduction" I beleive that it was going to be dubbed "Teo"?

In closing I havn't been "pissed off" at any time while participating in this thread. I have indulged you at some length with the objective of giving you "enough rope". It takes more than somebody making a silly claim and then offering no substatial proof for it to irritate me.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

My position remains as stated. It couldn't be more clear. You are welcome to believe what you feel you need to believe.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

I was wondering how a mercury based cable would work (apart from its toxicity).

Elk
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
I was wondering how a mercury based cable would work (apart from its toxicity).


I prize mercury cables for their liquid sound.

(Mercury isn't too bad in its solid or liquid forms. It gets nasty atomized or gaseous.)

rvance
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
I was wondering how a mercury based cable would work (apart from its toxicity).

Mercury cables work best with thermostatic speakers, which can produce either dry or warm sound as suits the listening environment.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Mercury is interesting. 'Not so good', as it's overall resistivity is at about 38 times that of copper, purity might change that, hard to tell without doing the work to find out. Toxicity rules it out. Flat out. Other than lab work, it is a dead end. Vapour pressure issues (evaporation) makes Mercury very unsuitable to be near.

If you go to 'AudioXsell', and look at the 2007 'Festival Du Son' show report, scroll down to the exhibitor 'Teo Audio', you will see the cables in an earlier incarnation, being shown in 'stealth mode'. Ie, no-one except a few people knew they were there, and exactly what they were. Both Interconnect and Loudspeaker cables.

Edit: It seems the photos are now quite tiny. I'm guessing you have to register as a member to get the full size versions. Nevertheless, you can still see some stringy things which might indicate a wire of some sort. For whatever that's worth!

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

A real product is out there, congratulations. I haven't heard them but let's say that the Teo liquid cables do indeed work wonders and conduct the signal better than any other regular speaker wire. My question is: how is the difference preserved once the cable arrives at its speaker destination, hooking up to the speaker terminals and going through "regular" wire to the xover and the drivers? Thanks.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.


Quote:
A real product is out there, congratulations. I haven't heard them but let's say that the Teo liquid cables do indeed work wonders and conduct the signal better than any other regular speaker wire. My question is: how is the difference preserved once the cable arrives at its speaker destination, hooking up to the speaker terminals and going through "regular" wire to the xover and the drivers? Thanks.

The problems of regular (frozen lattice structures) conduction still exist. But the reduction of the issues, in the part of the pathway that the speaker cable or IC occupies in the chain, is definitely noticeable.

Closer to the original event...one could say and/or observe.

However, I'm supposed to be the techno-gimp. They pull me out of the basement lab, wash me up and put me in a lab coat, and stand me in front of the cameras and microphones with a pre-arranged script.

I've been playing with this concept for quite a few years, and I've considered the ramifications.

As for the great flyin, bobbin'and'a weavin' dive bombing debates that can take place in the world of audio, this promises to be a real doozie. A real humdinger of a smash-up on the subjectivist-objectivist debate front.

The ramifications are little understood, on all fronts.

The standard electrical parameters still apply, with some very interesting modifiers and conditioners.

BillB
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

A reasonable answer, thanks. The question and the answer apply to all other speakers and interconnects too, and I have experienced audible differences between spkr cables so I know they can make a diff, despite the last few inches of copper inside the spkr cabinet.
How would you describe the differences/improvements between your cable and its similarly priced competitors? Not the structure or materials, but the audible differences?

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

That's a bit tough to answer without sounding a bit off.

It's not my job to review them, I'm known for waxing overly poetic.

There is a quite notable subjective change in your idea of volume, or level.

Effortless dynamics. Integrity in all dynamic structure. Effortless dynamics at all levels-evenly, at any volume. Note structuring seems far more complete. It'll bring tears to your eyes every day, if that's what music does for you.

You get up in the morning..and you rush to turn on the system. At this level in audio fidelity, that's a feeling to treasure.

Years later, every time I turn on the system, the sonic quality still surprises me. Every time. Still. I still regretfully shut it down in the evening.

I cannot believe what was hiding in the music's structure.

It boggles my mind to imagine the recordings that are going to be made.

KBK
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

Oh yes. Price. I'm afraid there are only general points of comparison when we speak about new technologies. That being said: a new technology, hopefully, does something special. Otherwise..why bother? It can bring many things to the table, or maybe - only one.

In this case, it brings two. Superior sonic quality, and price.

BillB
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Re: Completely new audio cables-different method of conduction.

what is the price range?

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