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May 29, 2009 - 8:22am
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CDs: Burned copy of pressed originals--better sounding?
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Well, given that people can easily buid bad hardware, although most don't, I can't say this won't happen, but if the two discs are digital copies of each other, and one sounds perceptably different, the player they're in is, well, not working right.
There is plenty of solid info in the CD demagnetizing thread to show why such a thing as 'burned copies sounding better'...can and does happen.
That speaks ill of player manufacturers, then. What can I say?
Yes, for stand-alone (non-PC-based) players. Better buffering of data and clock signal streams (which is a given in the PC environment; PC-based playback has other problems). None of this is all that hard or $$ to do in stand-alone players. For quite a while, some of us in the DIY audio community have been implementing these and other tweaks.
Burned CD-R copy vs. original (commercially-pressed) CD
If you think that's amazing, try a black CD burned from a green CD burned from the original.
Just to clarify, do you mean:
Original (pressed) rip --> Green CD-R re-rip --> Black CD-R ?
And, using what: a PC or dedicated (stand alone) CD recorder?
In any case, I can buy that Original (pressed) rip --> CD-R (whatever color) is sonically superior. But, a third-generation copy, in your case Green CD-R (made from rip of orig. pressed CD) --> (re-rip?) --> Black CD-R should not sound better.
Yes, you can improve a CD by copying it. This isn't news to me. I do this all the time, it's trivial. It's about the one redeeming thing I can say for the CD medium. Besides many personal tests with different configurations, I have done many blind tests with people who've had no problem picking out differences between copy and original. Anyone who says that if you hear differences between copies, then there must be something wrong with your player, doesn't know what they're talking about. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the original media, or the ripping software. Even if both are variables, poor quality examples of each can still produce superior copies on the original, if you know how to do that. But it always pays to use high quality CD-R's (ie. Taiyo-Yudens, if you can find them, or black Memorex). You can also produce inferior copies of CD's, easily enough. One thing I don't think I have ever been able to produce, is exact copies. There are so many variables that affect CD burns, its no wonder. Ripping, burning, conversion software, and so on (that includes burning configuration. ie. Burn speed can improve quality but these days, the slowest may not be the best. Disabling drive buffers always helps quality). If that isn't enough, there are approximately a billion tweaks to the CD, CD-R and burner that can help improve CD burns, and if that isn't enough, you can also improve originals by converting to DVD-A. But I can't say what will or won't be significant to you.
Having said all that, I've never methodically tried to improve my CD collection by transferring it to CD-R because of the time involved.
If you're talking about just doing straight burns, try changing a few variables or doing some tweaks, and see if it produces different copies to your ears.
It appears to be an issue of the stability of the raw bit read off the CD.
Measurement and design history has shown us that even the most stable buffer (low jitter) systems have issues with unstable (jitter) sections or circuitry that may precede it in the data chain.
Part of the issue appears to be the exact begin/end of the pit transition area. Hand (self 'burned') made CD's seem to largely be better with regards to this issue than a standard print type commercial CD. IIRC, a large part of the reason behind the Gold CD's and similar is to correct these sorts of issues.
CD ripping software often outperforms an actual CD player when it comes to playing CDs that are somewhat degraded.
The CD player has to do what it does in real time without retries using a disc being spun at 1x, while a CD ripping program has none of these constraints.
Once you have a superior copy of the degraded CD, it is easy enough to burn a new CD-R that can easily play flawlessly in the same CD player as was having audible problems playing the pressed origional.
Agreed.
Not just jitter, but the linearity parameter, too -- esp. WRT your comment about pits (and lands) being better differentiated on burn media (dye). Lineraity and jitter are mostly likely interactive.
Yup. But ...as far as buffers ... most cheap discmen nowadays have fair-sized buffers (and have transports that can greatly speed up disc-rotation speed) -- but, alas, all for the sake of anti-skip protection. All this fancy soft/hardware (which is dirt-cheap!) could be put to better use!
Speculating, CD tweaks (chem. sprays, polishes, etc.) probably will have nill affect on the sound quality of a pressed CD that will be ripped and burned (and played on stand-alone CDPs). The burned CD will still benefit from CD tweaks (on non-PC-based stand-alone CDPs).
I've got one I've copied, like, 90 plus times, and it keeps getting better.
After ten more times, I'm gonna try playing it on my turntable.