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michiganjfrog
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The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

A Stereophile exclusive!

I was reading mrlowry's blog recently (great blog btw!), and saw a video of George Cardas in his listening room. After viewing it, I gave myself the challenge of doing the impossible. Improving the sound of George's listening room, without entering his listening room, without touching the video file in any way (no processing was done on these files, only copies were made. It would truly be impossible to attempt this experiment without making copies!). This was actually one of many on my list of audio experiments that I intended to try. But I've never really done anything quite like this, so I wasn't entirely sure if it was possible or not.

The file is an abstract thing (as opposed to a tangible object). So obviously, I could not treat the file itself. That would be too easy, anyway, and not a very interesting challenge for me. I thought about treating the "container" for the files, my hard drive, and seeing what that would yield. That's a bit more interesting, since I've never actually treated a hard drive before. (It too was on the list!). But then reading a recent discussion between May and Buddha about adding fluoride to plant water piqued my interest more. I've never experimented with plant water either (that too was on the list!). Mainly due to the difficulty of finding liquid fluoride in my area. But I have done other experiments with plants, so this interested me.

"What do my house plants have to do with George Cardas' listening room?" Bear with me, I was getting to that.... This is a file I am getting off of a website, not one I create myself. So, if I couldn't touch the file, I had to touch what was around the file. From my research in Beltism I already knew the environment (I'm not talking about the acoustic environment) can be recorded. Is, in fact, recorded. Throughout the history of recording. It's in the recordings of Bessie Smith, as it is in the recordings of John Paul Jones or Andrew Bird. But the question I had to ask is, would it be "recorded" in between a file download (mrlowry blog) and a file upload (MotionBox), and how could it be done? Previous experiments in Beltist research on improving the sound of music files led the way for me. I would change the environment, and hopefully, in a more beneficial way. (Because making a media file sound worse is probably not that difficult!). Then make a copy of the original file I downloaded. Which is, in a sense, a recording. Then I would upload the copy, and hope it would retain whatever benefits it might have gained, following the change to its environment.

So what change was made? I added a drop of liquid to my watering can (about 4l of water). The liquid was P.W.B. Electronic's "One Drop" product, to be precise. Then I watered the plants in another room. Then I made a copy of the original file I downloaded. All files are just 6mb in size. So it won't cost much in bandwidth if you are interested to check them out and compare the two to see if you can hear or see differences in quality between them. Plus you get to see George's turntable, and that already is worth the price of admission...

Embedded Video (can be viewed live):

Original version

My Version

Downloadable version (play on your own computer):

Original version

My Version

n.b. If WMP or your regular player can not play back FLV files, this free player for PC will.

The Cardas One Drop Listening Room Test FAQ (in 3rd person perspective):

Q. Was I successful in improving my sound via the plant water?

A. Wildly successful. For more details on that, see here.

Q. Was I successful in transferring these benefits from the copied file, to the upload of the file, to the subsequent download of the file?

A. Less so, so I would have to say both yes and no. In that yes, I can hear some of that improvement in the copied file (named: "myversion" or "after plants...") on my computer. Easily, I prefer my rendering of Lowry's video file. But suffice to say, the final outcome does not reflect very much of the improvement in sound I first heard directly on my computer system after watering the plants with the treated water. Even though I tried to be careful about retaining the original sound of both files, many things are lost (or in some cases gained), along the way. This would also be true if the experiment covered a conventional (direct) change to the file (ie. processing the sound). But perhaps, its the same thing in the end.

Q. Dilution of quality aside, is the difference great enough that anyone would be able to hear differences between the two files?

A. Yes, I think so. Sorry, I mean I hope so. Wait, I mean... you be the judge! Thing is, I haven't had the chance to test these files yet on anyone else, to be able to answer that with certainty. The differences in quality can be both heard and seen (in image quality), and they're obvious enough on my system, that I'm not confused as to which version I'm listening to.

Q. Are the embedded and downloadable files exactly the same?

Yes and no, again. Technically, they're the same, as they are all copies of the same file, originating from mrlowry's blog. From a Beltist angle, they're not. For the two sets of files were copied under two different environmental conditions. The downloadable files sound better (IMO) than the embedded ones. The embedded ones are for convenience, but while sounding worse than the other two, they're still a valid test since they are both copies of the same files and retain some of the initial differences. One reason for the drop in quality is that MotionBox converts the original FLV format to MP4, (for use on iPods). Believe me, I went to great lengths to try to avoid this, but could not find a freely available host that would accept FLV and retain the format and not impose restrictions on the content. For that reason, I made the FLV copies available for download, if anyone is keen on verifying them against their source (mrlowry blog). Other changes to the original copies would come by the fact that I burned all files to DVD-R, copied them from disc to a laptop in another location, and uploaded them from there (because I am currently away from my home, where these files were originally created).

David_L
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

One whole month later and this is the only reply to your post.........which is appropriate considering the subject material

Response From The World Of The Sane

Buddha
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

We got a new computer today and I will be giving it a try.

I'm trying to figure out all my computer warnings about Openoffice.org first, then I want to see what I can hear!

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
One whole month later and this is the only reply to your post.........which is appropriate considering the subject material

Response From The World Of The Sane

Contrary to linear thinking limited non-extrapolations on the finer aspects of reality, there actually is something to what he is saying and looking to attempt.

As stated in another thread:

"For those who refuse to look, no explanation of any kind will ever suffice.

For those who do look, no explanation of any kind will ever be necessary."

The ego constantly fights for it's life, and that which it is attached to, the body proper. It will not allow you to see or understand anything outside of that as the body ...'ends'. That which occupies the body goes....much further.

Thus, when under deep hypnosis -and the ego bypassed- with the unconscious unleashed from it's grasp...the average person's IQ, under hypnosis, is usually a minimum 200 and as high as 275.

No kidding of any kind. I'm dead serious.

Think about it.

Now, will you remember this post and ponder further....or will your ego interrupt and tell you to not go there, under any circumstances, how many shades of lies will it tell you in order to steer you away from the full exploration of what I just told you? You have to remember, or know for the first time, that the voice in your head that is reading these words aloud to you is NOT you, at all ...it is the ego, and it is a different beast (literally 'beast') altogether.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've got $20 on each of the readers of my post, this post... forgetting that they've read this post.

And that's egoic function ---Keeping you ignorant of what you are really capable of.

Goodbye my ignorant friend, go back to sleep.

John Logie Baird invented television in order to be able to translate electromagnetic phenomena to a range of frequencies and data type so that we could communicate with beings of other dimensions. No shit. he also invented and finished and had the hardware ready to go to deliver CMYRGB 2000x lines of resolution HDTV..in early 1946. No Shit. The English government decided to spend money on infrastructure instead of his HDTV system.

At the same time, about 6 weeks after the war ended, German scientists showed a stunned group of US generals a radar and radio guided glide bomb that was video tipped and video guided. No shit.

This tells you that over 60 years ago, the Germans were 40 years ahead of anyone else, in some very powerful ways.

What has been hidden from you since, and how much more advanced is it? Scientific exploration and invention that took off before, during, and after the war did not slow down in it's development speed at war's end, quite the contrary-it sped up!!

What did happen though, is the removal of all of it from the public eye, up to and including the twisting of the math, the periodicals being removed, and those who did and do innovation in this dearth we have today..full ridicule and..even death. Today, the corporate involvement in black projects and the government aspects tied to that... actually kill their brightest people out there in the given country. They kill those who invent and discover, they kill any who are not involved in their black ops and secret projects, in order to keep such information as secret as possible. That is where the war has been for the past 50 years. And you wouldn't know it unless you went looking.

Think about it.

the current big game is microbiology, specifically the creation of genetically linked contagions and killers like plagues and flus. When this originally came out that 14 of the world's foremost micro-biologists had died strangely, the insurance industry's own risk calculating software said that the odds of such thing happening randomly..were 14 billion to one. This made it clear that their death was purposeful in order to hide or control data and information surrounding the design and decoding of the origins of different flus and plagues.

Since that time one hundred and forty eight more microbiologists have died strangely.

Don't look to the popular press to tell you such things. You'll never find anything there.

May Belt
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

>>> "For those who refuse to look, no explanation of any kind will ever suffice.

For those who do look, no explanation of any kind will ever be necessary." <<<

I agree with the first sentence, KBK but I would disagree slightly with the second sentence - but I only disagree to qualify it further !!

I.e :-
"For those who do look, curiosity and a desire to understand more will propel the SEARCH for and interest in an explanation"

Regards,
May Belt,
P.W.B. Electronics.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Conspiracies like that would be more believable if I could make myself believe ANYBODY in Washington could keep a secret.

michiganjfrog
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Hi "David L.". I remember you. You're that sockpuppet I said Ethan called here, specifically to attack Synergistics - which you did with great abundance. Why I haven't seen you post here since... well, since the very last Synergistics thread back in early Nov., as your profile shows. Now how did I know that you would be gone right after that "controversy"?

And now two months later, you come back to grace us with your sockpuppety presence, JUST to come into this forum and without provocation, post a personal insult to me, for the crime of posting on topic about an audio tweak. And what have you to say about said audio tweak? Only that no one has anything to say. Very astute observation. I forgot about this post weeks ago, so I might not have noticed that, without your interference. You even went to the trouble to take the time to find a YouTube video to tell me what you felt you needed to come back on Stereophile to say.

Ok, so now that you showed us what your agenda is on this forum, what do you suppose "I'm so entrenched in my religious beliefs about science and afraid to explore out any further outside of my little cave, that I won't even click on a link that could challenge them" says about you and other wannabe audiophiles of your kind? That's a rhetorical question, btw, but I know with you, it's necessary to point everything out.

I think KBK said all that anyone needs to say to you:

"Goodbye my ignorant friend, go back to sleep."

Or just go back to AVS or Hydrogen or wherever the heck Ethan pulled you from.

j_j
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Conspiracies like that would be more believable if I could make myself believe ANYBODY in Washington could keep a secret.

Oh, they can, until it is worth it for them to tell on somebody.

In other words, "wait 5 minutes". It's like the wingnut troofers who go on about 9/11 or the fanatic anti-evolutionists who argue that evolution is a conspiracy...

There's no way that that many politicians, construction workers, or scientists could keep that kind of secret that long.

5 minutes is "long" in this context.

Buddha
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Lucky for the members of these conspiracies is that the Masons run things with an iron fist.

Not even the Trilateral Commission gives the Masons any trouble.

As to the files, I'm still listening.

Orb
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Conspiracies like that would be more believable if I could make myself believe ANYBODY in Washington could keep a secret.

Heh I remember the 80s when Marconi defense research scientists kept dying in the most unusual of accidents.
If it wasnt so serious it could had been something from a Monty Python sketch.
Just done a search and I see that there were 25 mysterious/accidental deaths associated to this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysterious_deaths_of_GEC-Marconi_scientists

Of more recent times we have the death of Timothy Hampton, who somehow suddenly was overcome by depression and decided to amazingly jump down the stair well from the 17th floor of the UN building.
Early reports stated nothing was unusual about the death, funny enough this ignored unlikely bruising more likely to be caused by being held, on top of this police procedure involved the destruction of evidence after the initial autopsy giving the all clear.
He worked on at the UN Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organisation.

And then there was another all of a sudden suicide of Dr David Kelly who was UK's leading weapons inspector and critic of the UK's involvement in Iraq war, again unusual circumstances surround his death.

However, balancing the idea of conspiracy is the fact you would think killing someone would cause more headaches than just disagreeing with their reports and leaking some dirt on them.

Cheers
Orb

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

All these types of deaths are planned and carried out so that there is a aura or area of plausibility in the aspect of being normal or average, accidental, etc.

Therefore those who do not look at masses of evidence for sifting through ...to find the patterns and only look at the singular incident ..those people will find nothing and can thus justify their current emotional stance on reality by claiming that those who see serious patterns of abuse, control, assassination, etc... are kooks.

That's the way it has always been, in thousands of years of similar behavior and mass public control.

This sort of public musing on my part does no good in the general sense for public perception of me as a manufacturer, but I'm thinking there are certain things that must be done here, as the level of these sorts of things are getting far too prominent and repetitive in the world, overall, and mark a nearing point of no return.

Point- Federal reserve bank (federal reserve act), against all wishes, is pushed through the US congress on December 24, 11:45pm, 1913 just before midnight, just before congress was capable of officially closing for the holidays..by a group of paid congressmen, paid by the owners of the biggest US banks. No-one else was there to refute them or filibust them, as everyone of the other congressmen had gone home for the holidays..and this crew snuck back in and did it under the umbrella of near secrecy in the dead of night. This creates a permanent debt situation as every dollar created for the US treasury then has debt attached, and the US treasury was then disallowed from making any currency of it's own, so the US government could therefore never be out of debt to the federal reserve bank, who then pulled imaginary money out of it's ass and gave it to the US government. Ie, they bought the US economy for virtually nothing. This is what Jefferson struck down already and this was the third time the bankers have pulled this stunt. Now it's been around since 1913. America near immediately went to war (ww1) and created huge debt for themselves and huge profits and deeper control for the bankers.

Point- Federal Reserve bank is partially owned by Rothschilds. Morgan is deep with them, financed by them. Rothschild also financed the origins of Rockefeller. The Reserve bank owners (a private corporation that has never been audited) create the Union banking corporation, which is headed by their willing accomplice, Prescott Bush, later a senator, earlier ---caught attempting a fascist coup on the US Federal government in 1932. Prescott Bush is George Bush Senior's father, and George Bush Junior's grandfather. The Union Banking Corporation is formed to finance the Nazi's in Germany..and does exactly that openly, until 1942. given a cease and desist order on the financing by the US federal government, the group ceases publicly and then secretly supports the Nazis - further.

At war's end, the bankers retrieve their 'hard' investments in the way of creating the CIA, via the Dulles Brothers, etc, all 'skull and bones' members, as are Prescott bush, etc. This is why Bush senior eventually become the head of the CIA. It's a brotherhood/family thing. The retrieval of the hard investments comes via the funneling of approximately 5000 Nazi scientists, many whom were staunch supporters of the Nazi regime and they even keep their hierarchical organization and military rank and report to their superiors, in America. They drive around in big Mercedes and similar as they have money--from somewhere. This becomes the core group of black ops scientists in the US, all based on the bankers and thus corporations taking over the leading edges of science and going 'black' with the whole package on a gargantuan level. The fascists are firmly in control at the deepest levels. Most are Freemasons. The parent organization they get their Freemasons papers from is out of Argentina, no less-that known haven of Nazis. I've walked into more than one office and seen the Freemason papers on the wall, based out of Argentina.

Kurt Debius, as an example, becomes the head controller of operations at NASA but his background is in Einstein's unified filed theory (1928) torsion-tensor physical engineering systems..ie, anti-gravity propulsion systems in old Nazi Germany. There are another few hundred 'off the scale' oddities like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The full story is about 5-10 books long and filled with hundreds and hundreds of amazing facts, all verifiable and many on congressional record. This above bit is merely a teaser of one direction that one could go in, among many other possible directions of research.

Most people don't have the will or the desire to dig into this stuff, here in North America..but the time is coming soon where they will wish they did so, and wish they had woken up sooner. Fascism creeps and sneaks, as it has to...for the general public would obviously not want themselves in chains, or dying, or being used as a weapon against everyone else on the planet. Too bad that this is the shape of it -again. This time in America.

Like the hominid skulls and body parts found in old Africa that are a more advanced human than us, finding out that you are inferior or controlled to any degree is a decidedly unpopular thing to emotionally deal with -so most people will walk away from such things as hard and fast as their will and unconscious desires will allow them to.

One really has to 'hold their hand in the fire' metaphorically speaking, in order to read, understand, and know these topics. Running away and hiding is even worse, for this thing, this machine of destruction only digs deeper into you. The point of no return is coming up quickly for the people of the US, same as it did for Germany's citizens and their response to the insanity of the Nazi's.

A further example being that the odds of you being harmed in or on a terry-wrist attack on an airplane..are less that 10,000,000 to 1 This takes into account all terry-wrist attacks and deaths involving aircraft. The odds of you being killed by a lightning strike..are 500,000 to 1. There fore the odds of you being in a flight where people are harmed, is about the same as you being struck by lightening about 100 times in a row.

yet this garbage is being used as the 'casus belli' (faked created reason/excuse on the national level) for the removal of more personal freedoms and more creeping fascism.

It is noted that the Nigerian (son of a Nigerian national involved in international banking, no less) person involved in this recent incident was actually snuck completely by safeguards at the airport by officials. Then he conveniently comes up with mutterings and nutterings about Yemen, to create a further Casus Belli (faked reason on the national level) to invade and control Yemen on the world stage -- for those who run the US.

Buddha
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

This just in:

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Way cool.

I do note that attempted humour surrounding things that people don't like to deal with -- is very common.

Escapsim at it's finest.

The interesting part is that the deeper stories surrounding the invasion of Iraq have to do with Ancient Sumerian and older stargates, ie dimensional portals. The devices are not capable of being removed and are associated with their specific geographical co-ordinates.

Then we look at the understanding that the nazi's rebuilt Germany very quickly and are now in a very strong position in Europe once again.

Now the Germans and the french were digging around in Iraq before the invasion,and were deep in what was known as 'the most important archeological find in human history, by far. It was a 400 acre dig site where the origins of mankind were found to be held ..ie, The hidden history and origins, so to speak.

Now, that dig site and 13 others are now the positions of the biggest bases in Iraq. The biggest and most important has become the 'Green Zone'. So yes, the world's mot important archeological dig site is the Green Zone. As well as the complete trashing and theft of all artifacts from that green zone dig site, from the Iraqi national museum, on the very night of the invasion. The only place that was stripped and ransacked that invasion night, I might add.

Dick Cheney, who is apparently one of the members of Majestic-12 in it's current incarnation, said about the soldiers in Iraq, specifically the Green Zone, "Those boys are NEVER coming home." Remember, the story is that the 'stargate' cannot be removed, it is locational specific and part of the land, effectively speaking.

The idea of the electric universe is becoming more and more accepted and this point is about the understanding that atomic and dimensional (gravitic, quantum, temporal,etc) structures can be manipulated via extreme asymmetrical AC voltages riding on top of Extreme DC voltages, and all coupled to high levels of magnetism. Transmutation of matter, dimensional shifting, wormholes, etc. All this combined with encapsulated torsion-tensor stressing. This describes a stargate, to a T.

Remember my point about Kosyrev exposing the existence of a temporal carrier wave that is time invariant. Recall that depending on the planetary alignments in question at the given specific atomic explosion location, that atomic explosions will vary by as much as 40% or more, due to these temporal carrier wave's influence on the existence of 3-d matter and time, gravitation, etc. If you go and look, you will find that all NASA launches and Russian launches follow this pattern to utter perfection.

Since these things, these devices, these stargates are apparently locational or atomic charge and vector polarization sensitive (gravity is a polarized oriented gradient that is dynamic and in 3 axis) and that the earth and solar system is in a dynamic electrically charged envelope,and that is moving through other fields and is affected by them..then we get to the whole 2012 alignment with the center disc or line of the milky way galaxy (like the line formed when you cut a bagel in half), which is a highly charged and dynamic area, where ultimately the electric charge will do a polarity flip as we wander through the area of this galaxy ecliptic or line.

The so called progenitors of the human race are, uh..reptilian, ie Lucifer brings us down to a 3-d form. interestingly enough, this comes of the Sumerian tablets as a matter of fact flat out story read, off like an accounting ledger, as boring as shit -and merely a factual record, no grandiose god worship crap. And the electrically charged alignment of the planet right now is apparently allowing the stargate portals to open and these sorts of beings coming through them, as they did the last time the cycle was in the same phase, approximately 11,250 years ago. (since it is the center line in the 23,500 year up-down wobble, it happens twice per cycle).

Interestingly enough, the 11,250 year old thing is the exact age of the 'more evolved' hominid parts just found in Africa. More support of the ancient stories about (current) man's origins and different versions being 'toyed' with.

'Satan'*..... in Iraq!! Whoooo!

*The meaning of 'satan' is similar to that of a 'Justice of The Peace', he carries out the orders of the appointed, he is not the appointed, merely an officer of their enforcement staff. Lucifer is the bad guy, the angel of the dawn and the creator of the ego, the one who allows and enables the spirit, in astrological terms, to enter the body at birth but permanently colors the shape and execution of the spirit that occupies the body, or avatar. Lucifer was cast down as he had decided that he wanted to control and create the whole shebang as he already had undue influence,as god's most favored. 'Fuck you', he said to God, 'I'm gonna start my own amusement park for multi-dimensional entities'.

Apparently he still creates the barrier between spirit and body, the inner voice we call the ego,and thus colors and modifies our understanding of the world on the most base level, which s why clarity in the human occurs when we meditate and shut down the ego and allow true spiritualism to come through. Apparently the current form of humans were put together by a committee of 12 races of multi-dimensional entities and the reptilians, the Lucifer ego dudes, wanted to design the brain stem and thus inserted their machinations as the controlling structural point of the human edifice. Thus we are all spirits stuck repeating ourselves (reincarnation)in this reptilian controlled amusement park of sorts. Kinda feels a bit like Bill Murray in Groundhog day (Fuck! Not again!)

This goes into the origins of the bible being about GOD[S], not a mono or singular god. Yes, the bible was full of GODS, ie, committees that worked together and handed down judgments against groups of man via their JOP's, those Satans - who carried out the edicts. It's the cops! Run! And the reptilians of the avatar design crew being a sneaky-assed prick of an entity/crew who wanted to run the show. The bible was changed drastically to keep the followers dumber than a bag of hammers.

Is this shit getting weird enough for you yet?

Smoke em' if you got em'!!

I don't know about any of this stuff. I'm just reporting what I read, a small bit of it, at the least.

Orb
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Yeah but they had to let him go as his face was not on any of the 52 cards

Still, the suicide from the 17th floor of a UN building is one that makes me shake my head in disbelief.
Must be the 1st time someone decided to throw themself down the inside stair well as a way to commit suicide.
I guess its too noticable to drag someone away from their desk, take them to the roof and then throw them over the side

Edit:
Bah ok and sadly for those involved does seem some find that a way after searching internet, still seems rather painful and inefficient though.

Cheers
Orb

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
I do note that attempted humour surrounding things that people don't like to deal with -- is very common.

But, it's a true story.

Can't wrap your mind around something bigger than your small universe?

Expand your mind, man.

The Weekly World Report is where the real action is.

No humor intended at all, that's a real headline. Sure, shrug it off, as your lizard/monkey brain is prone to do with things you don't want to face.

Remarkable where one hits the arbitrary barriers set up by some conspiarcy lovers who just refuse to take the next step.

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Absolutely. When I take a thread off the rails I like to be sure it really is off the rails. Sorry Michigan. But, there might be some good stuff in there for you to ponder.

Here's a scary one, if falls right in line with the stuff I've just posted here:

Gog and Magog and President George W. Bush

The French ex-President Jacques Chirac recounted during an interview with the French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice how the U.S. President George Walker Bush asked him in 2003 during a phone conversation for support of the invasion of Iraq. In Maurice's book Si vous le r

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Masons run things

you rang, Sir? Ive been on the level for a few years now.

Monty
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

My Grandfather was a 32nd. I'll give the Masons credit for one thing; they sure know how to handle a funeral.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

yes, it is quite a beautiful ceremony.

32nd, cool. My Grandaddy is a 32nd as well.

One of my proudest moments in life was becoming a Master Mason.

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

So was my gramps.

So is my Dad. But I'm not. And, as I said, IMO, you can't lump all together. There are good and bad in any group. Some are unwitting, some are definitely devious and colluding.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Hi "David L.". I remember you. You're that sockpuppet I said Ethan called here, specifically to attack Synergistics - which you did with great abundance. Why I haven't seen you post here since... well, since the very last Synergistics thread back in early Nov., as your profile shows. Now how did I know that you would be gone right after that "controversy"?

And now two months later, you come back to grace us with your sockpuppety presence, JUST to come into this forum and without provocation, post a personal insult to me, for the crime of posting on topic about an audio tweak. And what have you to say about said audio tweak? Only that no one has anything to say. Very astute observation. I forgot about this post weeks ago, so I might not have noticed that, without your interference. You even went to the trouble to take the time to find a YouTube video to tell me what you felt you needed to come back on Stereophile to say.

Ok, so now that you showed us what your agenda is on this forum, what do you suppose "I'm so entrenched in my religious beliefs about science and afraid to explore out any further outside of my little cave, that I won't even click on a link that could challenge them" says about you and other wannabe audiophiles of your kind? That's a rhetorical question, btw, but I know with you, it's necessary to point everything out.

I think KBK said all that anyone needs to say to you:

"Goodbye my ignorant friend, go back to sleep."

Or just go back to AVS or Hydrogen or wherever the heck Ethan pulled you from.

Paranoid much Frog? Truly astounding how much BS you can spew once anyone opens the door just a crack. Tell me, how many people here actually gave your idea a try anyways? Looks like the thread got onto another angle huh? Well folks did any of you give Frog's original post any credence and TRY what he said? Thanks to me it kept the thread going though hmmm..........after a month of NOTHING before I chimed in Good hearing from you once more Froggy, I'll be interested in seeing what else you come up with.

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

The interesting thing about 'spooky action at a distance' is that all the through research seems to be showing that the desire of a person for the experiment to have a null to negative outcome is actually effective in damaging the experimental results. Ie, the mechanism which the experiment is attempting to quantify is subtle, or in the area of unknowns and that area of unknowns and subtleties can and is influenced by the naysayer's 'interference'.

This seems to be clearly borne out in the point that those who walk into such experiments who may be ACTUALLY neutral, those experiments invariably have positive results, and this, when the experiment is done by all scientifically correct protocols.

Yet, when the naysayers do the exact same thing, they get negative or null results.

The only thing left to consider is the sensitivity of the situation regarding what the heck is being quantified(an unknown) but that those who have lifetimes of experience in that same area, do explicitly say that the negativity of the naysayers is wrecking the experimental results that they achieve, if naysayers are in any way involved.

About 12,000 years plus of work in those areas..oddly enough..says exactly that thing..that it literally is..'all in your mind'.

And the naysayers don't even know what that means. This is their downfall.

Like the man said in the cartoon TV series, 'The Max': " I keep trying to tell you....but you keep cutting off my head!"

Largely speaking, though, in the case of most negative experimental cases, experiments and results we are dealing with, at the minimum, second rate minds and closed ones, at that. This does not constitute proof, if the experiment does not even know what it is measuring.

For example, the Amazing Randi is trotted out quite often, with regard to his $1 million challenge.

If his challenge is reviewed in it's specifics (scientifically and statistical validity in design and execution of said criteria and procedure), we find that scientifically speaking, no drug trial, no test or experiment of any kind -and even the casual analysis of gravity- can be verified via his challenge criteria, and it's been purposely set up that way as a predetermined failure. If you dig, that's what you will find.

Add to that, that his credentials are of a crackpot nature he has a scientifically illiterate background, so dragging Randi out is merely the shoveling of shit on one's scientific attempts of positional posturing. He's a McCarthyist shill at best, in my experience and analysis. He's all bias and no neutrality - this much is obvious.

Then we get into the origins of the mind and psychology and my point that engineering or science does not make reality, it attempts to measure...and that measure of reality sooner or later ends up poking at itself in the mirror...as it is finally doing, here, in these areas. A good scientist knows these things and does not waste his time arguing validity or otherwise in threads like this.

Only pundits and inherent naysayers with a desire for a negative result on such phenomena will venture into such arguments, due to their basic mental insecurities about reality and existence.

Enough said.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

I'll take that as a "NO" vote on your part KBK.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

KBK, you reminded me of an old Catholic joke:

Thinking pessimistically yields negative results, while thinking positively yields negative results.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:

Quote:
Masons run things

you rang, Sir? Ive been on the level for a few years now.

Speaking of that, I just found this great photo:

As for yourself, NC, in the general sense... the photo supplied (elsewhere) said since Kosovo, at the least.

Elk
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

I watched and listened to both files.

How precisely are they to appear different and sound different?

That is, what are the specific "differences in quality can be both heard and seen?"

No differences that I can detect, either when played back in my studio or main system.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
I watched and listened to both files.
How precisely are they to appear different and sound different?
That is, what are the specific "differences in quality can be both heard and seen?"
No differences that I can detect, either when played back in my studio or main system.

First, thanks for trying the comparison test. When I posted it, I never imagined it would be that hard for 'philes to click on a link. Maybe that's for the best, as in retrospect, this test wasn't as strong as I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, the premise is solid, it's good. I can can any L-P tweak and rocket it half way around the world. Of this I have zero doubt, that they can be digitally (as well as analogically) recorded. But in my excitement of having successfully tweaked the plant water, and hearing major differences on live music reproduction, I wasn't really thinking about how it would all end up on the other side of that world, with a different set of ears perceiving it on a completely different system, in a (no doubt) different way.

It starts out being night and day (for me) right after the treatment, then that gets diminished by the recording, then further so being transmitted across the net, then further so if converted by the host site, then further so when transmitted again via download. Then it is heard in an environment quite different to mine (and obviously this is a point, as the only reason it would sound better in the first place is because of my environment!). I realized how many losses are incurred throughout the process, when I just now downloaded both sets of files off of the two sites, and compared them. Let's just say the differences between the two are but a very pale comparison of the differences I heard "live" after the water treatment. That said, I still do hear differences between the two versions. They're just not as great as I would have hoped, in the end. Some of the things I hear between the two (in the after version), are a larger soundstage, better defined notes (more well-defined timbre). Thus the ring of the xylophone has a more realistic tone, in the after version. The colors of the video in the after version would be a bit richer, not unlike the musical tone. It might help to listen through headphones, and ensure a decent volume (so differences with transients are not missed).

Again, in retrospect, maybe the music here isn't the best choice for easy testing, and maybe the video is more of a distraction to the test than anything. I thought it would be a good idea, because the treatment affects video as well. But due to the way we perceive video, subtle differences are harder to detect (at least for me) than audio, and the whole trial becomes even more subtle.

I noticed on my site today that I had also uploaded a couple of music files ("Jesus to a child"), around the time of the George Cardas videos. These too were copies of each other, and based on the same concept. That is, one copy is from before the water treatment ("pre-test"), and the other copy was made after the treatment ("after fwr water"). If my theory about video being a distraction is correct, perhaps if you try comparing these 2 music files, it will be easier for you to ascertain differences between the two.

Pre-test

After water treatment

Lastly, this was not meant to be a test of any treatment used, or even the idea of that being transferred to recordings (those are not interesting tests to me, as I am already very familiar with them). It was meant to be a test of the concept of being able to transfer something like that across the wires. I realize that I am not even the first to try such an experiment. But I am probably the first to be as methodical about it, and utilizing an identifiable third party source for the test file. I realize too that this was just one change, and might have to make many changes in the environment, so that the resulting differences is wide enough and great enough to withstand all of the changes it will go through, before it ends up in an entirely different environment, before an entirely different set of ears.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Paranoid much Frog?

No. Troll much, sockpuppet DL?

Truly astounding how much BS you can spew once anyone opens the door just a crack.

Which part is BS? The readily verifiable part of your posting record, that supports my past claims that you were asked here by Ethan to fight in his little war against Synergistics? The FACT that you ONLY posted to Synergistics threads, and LEFT after they died off? The FACT that you ONLY posted here, because you saw my name on the thread, and remembered that I was your great obsession, equal to your agenda of bashing SArt? Clearly, no one needs to open any door or any crack to have you spewing BS.

Tell me, how many people here actually gave your idea a try anyways?

I don't know jagoff, I didn't take a survey. From the looks of things, I'd say between 1 or 2, and a million. But you tell me: why do YOU care so much about a post I had forgotten about? In fact, why are you so obsessesed with this number, that it would be the one and only thing to draw you back to this site, after you bailed out when the S-Art thread petered off?

Looks like the thread got onto another angle huh?

Gee, ya think Goofus? Coming back here just to point out which threads go off on tangents, you really really REALLY sound for all the world like an unemployed sockpuppet (or unemployed SOMETHING) who simply doesn't know what to do with himself anymore, now that the S-Art train has left the station. Have they stopped responding to your trolls about Synergistics on Audiojunkies? Is there no other forum you could troll that has an S-Art thread? Is that the problem you're having these days?

Look, I'm not expecting any of Ethan's sockpuppet friends to be any smarter than him, and I don't know or care where he found you, but you really come across as a retard. Do you have any awareness at all of that? Do you think you're doing your "cause" any good here?

We can all see that you're an anti-audio troll here to disrupt the proceedings, as that's all you've ever done on our forum. Which is why you are usually ignored, but nevertheless, KBK decided to humour you today by writing a lengthy intelligent response to you about quantum theory. It was friendly to boot, so fully inviting of your participation. Yes, this was YOUR chance to shine, boy. Your chance to show all of us 'Philes what an educated, intelligent, "scientific" sockpuppet you are. How well you understand the world, and the language of science, that you are such a zealot of. But what was your response? It was to pause in utter bewilderment at his reply, then scratch your ass, and write:


Quote:
"I'll take that as a "NO" vote on your part KBK"

....Showing that you could not understand a single fucking word he wrote to save your life. Showing that you could not even attempt to have an intelligent, scientifically-oriented discussion with someone on this board. All you could think to talk about was whether or not he tried my tweak, so you could stick out your tongue and go "Nanner! Nanner!". Like I said, you're a hopeless retard. All you manage to do here with every post of yours, is drive that point home.

Well folks did any of you give Frog's original post any credence and TRY what he said?

Why are you interested in what others do? Confused about which direction the herd is going, little sheep?

Thanks to me it kept the thread going though hmmm..........after a month of NOTHING before I chimed in
Good hearing from you once more Froggy, I'll be interested in seeing what else you come up with.

Spoken like a true obsessive troll, who contributes nothing of worth to our forum, and is only here to disrupt audio-related discussions. If you have nothing but attacks to make, then don't follow me around, little doggie, just to start "tweak wars". Not only will you not last long doing that, but you're even giving trolls a bad name.

Look, we get that you hate the company Synergistics. 99% of your posts on this forum attacking them made it clear. We get that you don't go for audio products that you can't fully understand (which is to say, MOST). We get that you scoff at everything in the world that you don't understand, because it makes you feel superior, inside of your ignorance. The problem is, you have nothing of worth to say, you contribute NOTHING positive here. With all you doing here is railing against tweaks, you're just a one trick pony, and it gets boring to see you do this one trick all the time. You're being disruptive to my thread, and to this forum in general. So if that's all you can do and say, and you can't participate in an intelligent debate to save your life, then LEAVE. Trust me troll, it's better you do that now and not make it worse for yourself (as with your precedents, Krueger, Krabapple, Joamonte, etc), then get booted off later and be forced to leave with my foot lodged in your ass.

Elk
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Thanks for the specific things to listen for. I am going to try again.

Have you found that the effect is "stronger" or more identifiable on higher resolution files, even just 16/44 instead of MP3 or compressed video/audio?

I may not hear a difference, I may even argue that it is nutty, but I always enjoy trying things out. Sometimes odd appearing ideas pan out. It still bugs me when I can hear the difference between cables.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
you were asked here by Ethan to fight in his little war against Synergistics?


I have no idea who David is, but he clearly recognizes BS when he sees it. I know it astounds you that anyone could doubt that "treated plant water in another room" will have a huge affect on the quality of music coming from your speakers. That alone makes this thread hysterical. But to think that everyone who finds you ridiculous must be in cahoots with me just shows how paranoid you really are.

Carry on Frog, I'll continue lurking and laughing.

Ethan Winer
RealTraps

j_j
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Paranoid much Frog?

No. Troll much, sockpuppet DL?

Truly astounding how much BS you can spew once anyone opens the door just a crack.

Which part is BS? The readily verifiable part of your posting record, that supports my past claims that you were asked here by Ethan to fight in his little war against Synergistics? The FACT that you ONLY posted to Synergistics threads, and LEFT after they died off? The FACT that you ONLY posted here, because you saw my name on the thread, and remembered that I was your great obsession, equal to your agenda of bashing SArt? Clearly, no one needs to open any door or any crack to have you spewing BS.

You know, "Frog", it's time that you abandon these paranoid conspiracy theories and get some help.

KBK
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

The frightening thing about conspiracies, is that in the context of history, they tend to be shown as real and true.

The point about history, is that is a re-telling of something that once was the real living event.

Kinda like the moment of 'now', eh?

As for the rest of it, I do find the vitriol a bit overboard, yes. But I do the same myself at times, so I forgive him for it, as I do you two dudes, if and when you indulge. We all have different days and lives.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Thanks for the specific things to listen for. I am going to try again.

If you do, try the music files. If those comparisons still don't reveal any differences to you between the before and after versions of those two files, then that might mean that the differences between the files aren't great enough to make an impact to others testing them, on the other end of me. That doesn't mean that no one can hear differences in those files, or that I can't, but that not everyone can. To get to "most everyone can", I would have to try a lot harder to get a better end result that would drive a wedge between the two versions.... I'm not sure I want to attempt to go that trouble here, since there isn't any interest in this test. But who knows, maybe at a future date. What throws me off is my recollection that a lot of people (cough)(Winer)(cough) didn't hear differences in the Michael Frehmer files. And its probably safe to say, this would be very likely smaller than the difference vinyl demag makes, from what I recall hearing of the MF files.


Quote:
Have you found that the effect is "stronger" or more identifiable on higher resolution files, even just 16/44 instead of MP3 or compressed video/audio?

To be honest, I don't think I have ever tested anything like this on higher resolution files. I usually do all my audio testing on my computer, for the sake of convenience. And on mp3's, because that's mostly what I have on my hard drive. Since I can hear far more subtle differences than the plant water treatment on mp3's, to me it wouldn't make a difference. Would it make a difference to someone else, if they did these kinds of tests on .WAV's or better, I don't know. That's kind of why I share some of my experimentations sometimes, to find out what others can or can't hear, and get a different perspective than the one I know. It might even help me get better at this. I am often just as surprised at what isn't heard, as what is. So at this point, it's still hard for me to predict these things.


Quote:
I may not hear a difference, I may even argue that it is nutty, but I always enjoy trying things out. Sometimes odd appearing ideas pan out. It still bugs me when I can hear the difference between cables.

How odd or valid something "sounds" in theory, has really nothing to do with how valid it actually is in reality. But try telling that to some people (cough)(Winer)(cough), who not only can't think outside the box... but live in it. Quite proudly, at that.

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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:

Quote:
you were asked here by Ethan to fight in his little war against Synergistics?


I have no idea who David is, but he clearly recognizes BS when he sees it.

Oh yes, of course, Winer. And when you say you have "no idea who David is", I totally believe anything you say. Because I've completely forgotten the fact that you have been exposed as a pathological liar on this site so many times now that it's not even funny anymore. And I've also forgotten that you've been shown to contradict your own words more often than the amount of times you've been seen spewing ignorant BS.

Speaking of which... it's funny though how the "David L." troll only decided to come here and "recognize BS" right in the middle of a thread where you were killing yourself to attack the reputation of one your competitors, Synergistics, and clearly needed help in that fight. It's also quite interesting, that the David L. troll stuck like glue to any and every thread that had any relation with Synergistics. Even funnier? That this is allhe posted to, despite the plethora of forums and threads we have to offer. It is in fact hilariously funny, that your friend "David L." then left Stereophile right after the last Synergistics thread died. Funny, just as I predicted he WOULD. And funnier still, that he came back only to attack me. Who went after him, back when he was bashing Synergistics.

You know what's really tickling my funnybone here, Ethan? Joamonte. Remember him? You should. Because he came at the same time as "David L.", and like "David L.", he also had quite the obsession with bashing Synergistics. And by some "funny" coincidence once again, we found that he was a customer of RealTraps products. Like David L. again, Joamonte also left Stereophile right after the Synergistics threads died. Just like I said he WOULD. Wow, what could that mean, do you suppose? That the only "BS" to be found on this forum is anything by Synergistics and my water treatment test? Isn't it funny how "David L." never recognizes any of your"BS"? But wait, I haven't stopped laughing yet. Because there's something really funny about all of this trolling around, of yours. The exact same pattern was seen during your last attack on a high end audio company, back in the time of the Sean Olive/Furutech threads. This is where you were losing your little battle, and then by some weird coincidence, we got a strange influx of new people registering here and coming in to that thread, who it turns out were all, by some crazy coincidence, also members of a forum called "Hydrogen Audio". Where by some weird coincidence, you too are a member. And then another odd coincidence, where there was a mirror thread there to the one here, with the same trolls who were on here. All of whom left our forum after those threads petered out.

Well, all except crazy old man James "Stop Stalking Me!!" Johnson.

I know it astounds you that anyone could doubt that "treated plant water in another room" will have a huge affect on the quality of music coming from your speakers.

Really? Where did I say that?

Carry on Frog, I'll continue lurking and laughing.

Never as hard as I am toward you. You'll have to trust me on that one.

michiganjfrog
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
You know, "Frog", it's time that you abandon these paranoid conspiracy theories and get some help.

Man, if I had a dime for every time someone told me to "get help", I could buy and sell you 10 times over.

Does everything in life have this sort of facile solution to you? I suppose you can save every situation with but two simple words. Well not this time. I've tried, James. I've tried, okay? I have a stack of files on my desk higher than your sense of indignation, to prove it to you, if you want evidence. You can check each one, they are all from different doctors. And every single one has a bright red stamp at the bottom of the document that says "Beyond Therapy".

You do the math.

Elk
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
To be honest, I don't think I have ever tested anything like this on higher resolution files. I usually do all my audio testing on my computer, for the sake of convenience. And on mp3's, because that's mostly what I have on my hard drive. Since I can hear far more subtle differences than the plant water treatment on mp3's, to me it wouldn't make a difference. Would it make a difference to someone else, if they did these kinds of tests on .WAV's or better, I don't know.

Fair enough.


Quote:
How odd or valid something "sounds" in theory, has really nothing to do with how valid it actually is in reality.

Agreed.

And there are plenty of unexpected events that are fully explainable and reasonable.

As a non-audio example, a car usually spins to the inside of a corner - not to the outside as most of us would expect. Once I started driving on race tracks this came to make sense and the physics of a turning car fully support it. It is non-intuitive however and easy to want to argue that a car always spins to the outside of a corner, just like sliding off.

I think your test is absolutely nutty, but I have always felt that you act in good faith. Thus I try out your ideas.

Thanks for the explanations!

dave_b
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

Elk, I'm gettin scared , can you tell me what the hell quantitative differences of the water quality in plants has to do with the subjective quality of recorded/transfered or copied audio/video files? And who left the inmates out again...they promised only us normal people would be allowed to post here!

Elk
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment


Quote:
Elk, I'm gettin scared , can you tell me what the hell quantitative differences of the water quality in plants has to do with the subjective quality of recorded/transfered or copied audio/video files?

Absolutely nothing.

I think he is entirely self-deluded.

Yet I find it fun to try out these things.

Partially this may be because there have been tweaks that I find work that do not make sense.

For example, I have yet to hear an intellectually satisfying explanation as to why a solid state system with a digital front end sounds better on a good quality audio rack. Lots of speculation, but little fact based information.

Yet it works.

I admit to the possibility of mass self-delusion. However, I find the improvement offered by a good rack to be consistent and repeatable. Thus, even if delusion, I am contented with the result.

Besides it's a hobby. It is supposed to suck up time, energy and money.

dave_b
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Re: The Cardas Listening Room Experiment

I couldn't agree more with your take on things. Once my tech stocks crashed and I lost all the "Funny Money" at the turn of the century, I've learned to work with my equipment more closely. I've learned alot, debunked some things and happily improved my listening experience along the way . For me, solid wood supports and racks are my favorite. Hi Fi tuning fuses were a nice surprise for the buck, and putting in quality Wattgate Duplex's made a huge improvement ! One thing related to H2O/plants and our listening environments, which was quite a remarkable epiphany, centers around the relative humidity of the air. Extremely dry air propagates sound that sounds sharper, faster, brighter and generaly less pleasant to my ears with my system. A relative humidity level of aprox. 35% sounds best to me...warmer, sweeter treble, more natural timing etc.. while still retaining adequate transparency and dynamics. Tonality seems far more natural with 30% to 40% Humidity as well. Plants provide a bit of ambient humidity and are fantastic all natural acoustic diffusers. Sadly, I listen in my den now where there is no natural light to support live plants, so I use silk ones.

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