BillB
BillB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 years 10 months ago
Joined: Aug 15 2007 - 2:04pm
Cable elevators are brilliant (not?)
Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am

Since the fallen cables had been elevated in the past, there was likely some residual benefit left over.

I'd have to know how long they had been left "down" in order to comment further.

dcstep
dcstep's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2007 - 4:59pm

Concise!! Well, that'll put a damper on things.

Dave

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

You gots to be nuts, right? And how fast they fell over also determines the rate of residual remaining cable lift benefit. I'm sure the "experts" that mfg. such technically advanced devices have the formula all worked out. Was it a MapeleShadey 3 piece chopstick type, or a ceramic ball, or a combination ceramic/super Shunyatatatatatata, conducting foam.

CECE
CECE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 17 2005 - 8:16am

Did it have magic foam? http://www.shunyata.com/Content/products-DarkField.html

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am


Quote:
And how fast they fell over also determines the rate of residual remaining cable lift benefit.


Exactly.

You need to know the height, rate of descent and precise strata upon which the cable landed to calculate how much of the benefit was bounced out of the cable.

BillB
BillB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 years 10 months ago
Joined: Aug 15 2007 - 2:04pm


Quote:

Quote:
And how fast they fell over also determines the rate of residual remaining cable lift benefit.


Exactly.

You need to know the height, rate of descent and precise strata upon which the cable landed to calculate how much of the benefit was bounced out of the cable.

Good point. Will research the above, plus room humidity factors.

dup, yes, they were the Shunyata ones.

ethanwiner
ethanwiner's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 2:26pm


Quote:
Did it have magic foam?


LOL, you guys have it all wrong. It doesn't matter if the elevators actually changed the sound in the room, it's all how the listener perceives things. If you "perceive" an improvement, then it worked and is worth whatever the manufacturer charges.

--Ethan

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am


Quote:
You gots to be nuts, right? And how fast they fell over also determines the rate of residual remaining cable lift benefit. I'm sure the "experts" that mfg. such technically advanced devices have the formula all worked out. Was it a MapeleShadey 3 piece chopstick type, or a ceramic ball, or a combination ceramic/super Shunyatatatatatata, conducting foam.

Yes, I neglected to mention that the type of elevator that the cable fell off will also play a role.

Elk astutely mentions other considerations.

In fact...If someone carefully/gently lowered the cable onto the floor, perhaps as much as 88.7658% of the original elevation "benefit" is maintained.

I know groups of audiophiles who time share their cable elevators in this manner.

RGibran
RGibran's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: Oct 11 2005 - 5:50pm

Wasn

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am


Quote:

Most surprising of all though, Ethan gets it! All of Jan's teachings really did have an effect on ole Ethan! Perception is everything!

RG

Someone, pull my finger for a perception changing experience.

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm

Another forum post pulled from another forum, specifically about subtle tweaks: I gave a video example.

Originally posted by PMA
In my experience, it is the circuit design and proper shielding that makes 85%-90% of resulting sound. All of those resistors, air wires etc. do not help for worse electronic design, when compared to a better one. This is just my listening experience when comparing several prorotypes even against very well known and respected products, which emphasized use of special components, burning in etc. To me, these are marginal issues discussed here.

KBK's response:

I'll relate some of my experiences in CRT projector modification.

At one point, near the end run of that work, I proposed to folks that changing the horizontal deflection yoke wiring on their tubes was critical.

They laughed at me.

I ended up having to explain that, if all the other modifications were done, then the subtle differences created by the changing of the yoke wire out to something that is more complimentary to the 'perfection' of signal transfer, for that given signal and it's environment..this would bring about a noticeable change and a positive one. some folks actually got around to figuring out how to clean up their big CRT PJ's to the point that this change become a big one, on the order of 1-2% of subjective change in image fidelity.

Again,... But, and a BIG BUT..ONLY if all the other work was done to make it noticeable. To bring this previously subtle change, to a point of now..prominence.

When you tweak a circuit in layout, power supply, implementation, vibration control, proximity to other fields and conditions, parts, etc..then the subtle stuff becomes QUITE prominent, as it's the last vestiges of 'fault' that lie in the system.

It is essential to learn how to do all of the rest first..and that's a big-backside pile of time and work. No substitute here for work..no..the opposite, you've got your work cut out for you.

Then..you take all the subtle tweaks..add them together..and they add up to a quite BIG change..toward and into the direction you wish to go, which is that last little bit..on the road to perfection.

It's an art. You gotta work at it.

John Curl's Response:

Wow, KBK, I would have laughed too, but I don't make CRT projectors. What brand? Do you know Joe Kane?

KBK's response:

It had to do with running 8" and 9" NEC, Barco, Electrohome, and Sony projectors at their limits, which was a stable and clear 'near perfect' 1080P resolution level. In a horizontal yoke wire..the cable is immersed in huge fields, both static and signal, and it is near metals. Vibration, as well-thus motor effects. I proposed the swapping out of the wire by a multi-stranded Teflon insulated wire, with a specific stranding type and 'lay', which I then proceeded to do. I designed the wiring a specific way for a specific reason, and it seemed to work out.

This stabilized the horizontal line drawing, with respects to the timing start issues (actual beginning and stability of that draw) and then the decay period which emphasized the draw across the tube face. So, from flatline to peak and stable, like a square wave..then decay down to whatever (in value) to draw the spot across the tube face. At 1080P, each line must follow the last in utter perfection, so that the line is placed exactly 'so' in each line. Then, across all three tubes. At 1080P, a subtle change in image fidelity..when viewed at 8 feet across from about 10 foot distance, this has the seeming effect of moving the chair back a foot or so, as it brings more 'clarity' and fidelity to the image, with regards to being able to 'see into' the image. This, on all fronts. Focus, sharpness, color fidelity, color gradations, etc. The same kind of effects as one sees in extreme audio. But the video versions. I had hardcore video fanatics drop in, one of them..came in ..saw the image fidelity, gulped real hard, and went outside and sat on the porch. Nearly had a heart attack. To this day, I've never seen anything equal it.

But this was only really visible, when one had rebuilt or re-executed the entire rest of the Projector. over 600 parts, done as a 'single cause analysis' methodology, on the one example, over a two year period.

I shared a few conversations and secrets with Chris Stephens. I wonder how he's doing. One has to be careful with CRT circuits in ways that don't really count in audio. For example, in audio, you can over do the capacitance in a PS, and maybe suffer with a bit of strange harshness, or loading/phasing behaviour. With the CRT units, it can be a recipe for fire, due to the frequencies involved.

It was when I had really perfected the 1080P image, and also perfected my HTPC (rebuilt motherboards, clocking systems, mechanicals, vibration, etc) , with respects to all things, including custom wiring and everything in signal transfer hard wired, and then custom trimming the loading on each separate R-G-B channel..and the H and V signals..I then began to play with (and had already been playing with) the idea of a 'perfect' aspect of the 'upscaling'..and finding those ratios..and exploring the rationale of the whole thing.

I came up with the reasons behind why 1080P upscaling of DVD's worked best..and published that. I was ridiculed. For about 2 years.

Now the 1080P upscaling is on nearly every DVD player you can buy. Why? well, the video quality, it's better - can't you see?

I don't believe I've ever met Joe Kane.

I'm also still sitting on about 5 years worth of exploratory surgery on digital projector technology, which no-one seems to have yet 'discovered' most of it. It is of a similar nature as the CRT work.

All the little tweaks that can take any digital video projection display and make it brutally obvious that folks are watching something that exists in an entirely different world and different level. I spent about 6 years developing a quite decent understanding of 'psychovisuals' and how that relates to technological needs, with regards to achieving the that which the eye needs to see, to understand a better image. Once again, over 5 years of single cause analysis experiments in video technology..day in, day out, 7 days a week...all done at the cutting edge.

No one cares. Oh well. Yet they all clamor about asking for the 'best image'. I'd like to dump it all on one company, someone good enough to do something with it. The usual response I get is that I'm some sort of fruitcake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yah see? yah gotta put in the work and the time. On a good system, the tweaks work. but only if everything else has been taken care of--first!

Do that first in a given audio system..and then the effect of the cable elevators becomes noticeable.

I'd say that if you had that 'high end' audio system home for a few months..then the cable elevators might have developed into something that you'd of decided that you couldn't live without. Who knows.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 7 months ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am


Quote:
LOL, you guys have it all wrong. It doesn't matter if the elevators actually changed the sound in the room, it's all how the listener perceives things. If you "perceive" an improvement, then it worked and is worth whatever the manufacturer charges.


Ethan, even you must know this is too simplistic! The concept cannot be explained in less than 10,000 words of obscure reasoning.

To summarize:

You can properly perceive only if the rational parts of your brain are turned off (surgery is quickest, but the alternative is to study method acting), you need to switch egos (you must develop multiple personalities), invoke your non-magic talismans (is there such a thing?), and forget everything you have ever learned or experienced previously.

Then when you are sufficiently open to the experience, something physical will happen that is extra-sensory and you will be transported to sonic bliss.

Remember however, you have to have a superior mind. If you haven't done this by age three you probably simply can't do it.

ethanwiner
ethanwiner's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 2:26pm


Quote:
You can properly perceive only if the rational parts of your brain are turned off (surgery is quickest, but the alternative is to study method acting), you need to switch egos (you must develop multiple personalities), invoke your non-magic talismans (is there such a thing?), and forget everything you have ever learned or experienced previously.


Yes, but you must make it clear to everyone reading your 10,000 words that only you are privy to this higher knowledge, while giving the readers faint hope that someday they too may reach your higher plane. I do agree that surgery is the quickest route to that higher plane.

I can just see it now, in the style of Jeff Wong's recent comic book ads:

Yes, you too can achieve a higher musical experience without buying new speakers and other gear. Sign up for only one session with our new Frontal Lobotimizer (tm) and never again wonder "Is it Real or is it Placebo Effect?"

--Ethan

Log in or register to post comments
-->
  • X