...your budget?

Tails65 wrote:

It's about 1k (see OP).

...I meant currency - is it USD?

Tails65 wrote:

Goal

I'm looking for an AVR/amp to power Focal Aria 948 speakers, and then some.

Current setup
I'm using a Pioneer A30 (70W) amp with Teufel T 500 Mk2 (170W) speakers and a Teufel subwoofer T2300 SW. I use the Recorder Out to power the subwoofer. I'm not an audiophile, so while this isn't optimal, it works fine for me.

I'd like the new amp/receiver to be able to power all of them (4.1?), sometimes simultaneously. Does this mean I need a receiver? I prefer a good old classic amp, because I don't need video/radio/wireless/etc stuff that receivers have.

Source

Computer 3,5" (MP3) or TV audio out.

Considerations

* Impedance: the Focal 948's doc says the Nominal impedance is 8 Ohms. But it also says the Minimum impedance is 2.5 Ohms. Which should I use when choosing an amp? I get that impedance is frequency dependent, but still. Do I need a 4 Ohm amp?
* Power: The 948's doc says 50-350W is needed. So, my current 70W amp is too little, especially with the Teufel speakers & subwoofer. How much should I aim for?

How is the Marantz SR5010 (8 Ohm, 180W) for me? Or do I need something like the Pioneer SC-1224 (4 Ohm, 200W)?

The Focal Aria speakers do require an amplifier that will put out 50 watts or more at 4 ohms, and not go berserk and distort at the frequencies where
the speakers are 2.5 ohms.

The Marantz MM7025 would be a good amp for the Aria 948 speakers, and the current amp seems to the working OK with the Teufel speakers (correct?).

The question I have is...?...how will you be getting four discrete signals to feed to these amps? Are those four signals coming direct from the computer sound card? And if the sound card is a 5.1 sound card, why not use its subwoofer output to go to the sub?

If you do not have a 5.1 or 7.1 sound card in your computer, you can get one fairly cheaply; that would be a good start. Check out the ones from ASUS and Creative, which are very good and less than $100.

The outputs of the sound card can go to the power amplifiers.

I purchased the Essence STX was because of a favorable review on Stereophile:
http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio/asus_xonar_essence_ststx_soundcards#RiBhIed0UK2pedEq.97

Since that review, there has been a release of the STX II:
https://www.asus.com/Sound-Cards/Essence_STX_II/

I have both and recommend both.

If you are looking to send discrete signals, you'll want to take a look at this:
https://www.asus.com/Essence-Hi-Fi-Audio/Xonar_H6/

Tails65 wrote:

Thanks again. I'll use my existing amp to power the Teufel speakers, and with one of the recommended soundcards I'll power a new amp that powers the Focal Aria 948s. The Marantz MM70255 certainly looks appealing. Another one I got my eye on is the NAD C372. It looks up to the task as well, and I heard NAD sometimes underrates their specs. Thoughts?

I'm assuming you're only doing 2 channels?
First, you have great speakers and they deserve to be driven by good quality amp and preamp and source component / DAC, etc. You will have to up your budget on electronics. $1k budget on amp isn't gonna be enough to do justice for your Focal Aria 948 speakers. You will have to do better than that if you want to achieve a full potential of your speakers.
The Marantz MM7025 isn't a good power amp at all and isn't capable to handle low impedance speaker loads and isn't stable at below 8 or 6 ohms. It is basically no different than a receiver's built-in amp. And the MM7025 wouldn't do justice for your speakers......far from it.
I would recommend the following amps :
Rotel RB-1582 Mkll power amp / RC-1590 preamp/DAC.
Rotel RB-1590 power amp / RC-1590 preamp/DAC.
Cambridge 851W power amp / 851E preamp / 851 DAC or streamer.
NAD M22 power amp / NAD M12 preamp/DAC.
Parasound Halo A21 power amp / Halo P5 preamp/DAC.
Classe Sigma Amp2 power amp / Sigma SSP preamp processor (with DAC).
Classe Sigma 2200i stereo integrated amp. (new).
Parasound Halo integrated amp.
Rotel RA-1592 stereo integrated amp. (new).
Any of the higher end Musical Fidelity Nuvista integrated.
McIntosh MA7900 integrated amp.

These amps (integrated or separates) will do justice for your Focal Aria 948 speakers and are stable all the way down to 3 ohms or 2 ohms and will have plenty of reserve powers and will perform and sound way better than the Marantz.

Tails65 wrote:

Thank you for the specific suggestions, Caphill!

The Rotel RB-1582/RC-1590 does look like an outstanding combination.

I do hope you can explain a non-audiophile noob: what is the added value of a pre-amp when you have a massively powerful 2x200W @ 8 Ohm amp like the 1582? Especially when using as source pc mp3 => sound card => amp or pc mp3 => Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen => amp?

Yes, the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll is a great and very competent power amp especially for the money and is far far better and superior than the Marantz MM7025 power amp. It retails for only $1600 USD but you can find it used for lower than that. The Marantz MM7025 power amp is more suitable for budget speakers, and would not do justice for your Focal speakers.
The Rotel RC-1590 preamp/DAC is an excellent sounding preamp/DAC combo for the price IMO. This preamp has good sounding onboard DAC (Digital Analog Converter) and you can connect your computer via either PC USB or spdif (coaxial or toslink) to this RC-1590 preamp and let the built-in DAC in the RC-1590 preamp do the conversion. The preamp also has other both analog and digital inputs. If you use its digital inputs it means that you're using its built-in DAC in the preamp. If you use its analog inputs it means that you're only using the preamp as an analog preamp thus bypassing its built-in DAC in the preamp and the digital-to-analog conversion takes place somewhere else.

I would suggest thst you are connecting your computer source via either USB or spdif (coaxial or toslink) to the preamp as the DAC in the preamp is far superior sounding than any computer or PC soundcard.
Acvording to one of pro reviewer from I believed Hometheaterhifi.com that the DAC in this RC-1590 preamp sounded better than the Oppo 105's DAC. I've never compared them directly myself but this pro reviewer did make direct comparison. This RC-1590 preamp has 2 separate toroidal transformer power supplies, one for digital section and the other for its analog section. And the digital and the analog sections of the preamp are isolated and were designed separately.
It is a great value for only $1800 USD.

The Rotel RC-1590 preamp / RB-1582 Mkll power amp will make very good and musical sounding setup especially for the money. If this combo fits within your budget I would highly recommend them.

Or alternatively, you can also get the Parasound Halo A21 power amp and the Halo P5 preamp/DAC combo. The Halo A21 is actually a superior sounding amp than the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll amp IMO. Well, they will sound different. I found the Halo A21 to be more resolving and accurate and precise than the Rotel with greater clarity and larger soundstage and better and more precise imaging in comparison to the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll amp. Especially in regards to PRAT (Pace Ryhtm and Timing) and speed, this is the area where the Halo A21 is clearly superior to the Rotel. Sounded faster than the Rotel. The Parasound Halo is neutral tonally whereas the new Rotel RB-1582 Mkll is on the warmer side of neutral.
The Rotel RB-1582 Mkll is still a great and musical sounding amp and I found it to be very comfortable to listen with its warm alluring sound. In comparison to the Halo A21, the Rotel has a warm rich tonal and fuller sound than the Parasound. The Rotel also has weighter fuller and more impactful bass than the Parasound.
Both amps are dead quiet and the Halo A21 is slightly more dynamic and had more headroom than the Rotel. The Halo A21 is also more powerful than the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll amp. Both amps are beasts and I could not find the limits of both amps.

The Parasound Halo P5 preamp / Halo A21 amp will cost you $3600 total.
The Rotel RC-1590 preamp / RB-1582 amp will cost you $3400 total.
The synergy between your speakers and the amp is important and both the Halo A21 and the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll are very capable to handle low speaker impedance loads.
Actually the more direct competitor of the Parasound Halo A21 amp is the Rotel RB-1590 power amp ($3k). The RB-1590 is even more powerful and more dynamic than the Halo A21 but both amps are quite resolving but will sound different.

Or at higher price points you should highly consider the NAD M12 digital preamp/DAC and the M21 power amp combo for total of $6500 for both. This is the NAD Master series gears and IMO they are superior to the Rotel combo. This NAD M12/M21 combo will sound very good on your Focal Aria speakers.

Or the Classe Sigma 2200i stereo integrated amp will be a great choice and is preferrable to the NAD Master series. Or the Classe Sigma SSP preamp processor and the Sigma Amp2 power amp combo will sound even better and would be number one choice if you can swing it for $8500 total. Fyi, the Sigma series is an entry level offerings from Classe and the Sigma series uses class D amplifier or digital amplifier. Whereas the more expensive Delta series from Classe uses class AB analog amplifier circuitry.
All these preamps and integrateds mentioned above have built-in DAC for you to use.

Lastly, the McIntosh MA7900 integrated will be a great contender for your Focal Aria speakers. And one of the Musical Fidelity Nuvista amp will be an awesome choice as well. Musical Fidelity makes awesome equipments and their products are usually highly regarded by many.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you finally decide on the electronics to drive your Focal Aria speakers. Have a listen to as many as possible using your own Focal speakers in your own listening room if possible to take some home demo. Good luck.

Tails65 wrote:

Fantastic explanation again. I'll have to up my budget quite a bit, but I agree that it would be unwise to have a bottleneck. The good thing about audio equipment is that its value depreciates much slower than almost all other consumer products.

I think I'll try two set-ups: the RB-1592 MK2 + USB connected RC-1590 which should be ideal. Then I'd also like to test a lower level USB connected DAC and with the RB-1592 MK2, see how well I can hear the difference (being a non-audiophile). In no way do I question your experience, but it may well be that my ears aren't refined enough to distinguish the levels of a $1700 DAC/pre-amp.

It depends on what kind of audio equipments, if it's av receivers or av preamp surround processor for home theater application, their resale values are very low if they aren't equipped with the most current av formats and codecs for home theater applications. Like the most current and latest video codec will be hdcp 2.2 required for 4k video pass through and HDR with hdmi v2.0 and on the latest surround audio formats side of things will be Dolby Atmos, dts-x, Aura 3-D.
If your av receivers or av preamp surround processor aren't equipped to decode these formats their resale values are going to be very low.
Especially if you're trying to sell an older av receiver or an av preamp surround processor that don't have hdmi switchings at all I'd say that you can only sell them 10% to 20% of their original msrp.
But the stereo gears like stereo preamp or integrated amp or power amps, whether it's a monoblock or stereo or multi-channel amps, or standalone DAC or streamer or cd player or turntable etc, their resale values are much higher than any obselete av gears.

When you said a lower quality DAC that you're trying to connect it directly to the power amp, does the DAC have a volume control? If it does, yes you can connect it directly to the power amp but if the external DAC does not have volume control you can never connect it directly to the power amp, you will need to connect it to the preamp first and then to the power amp. Cause the power amp does not have a volume control to increase or decrease the gains.
Because the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll is a power amp, not an integrated amp. Integrated amp is a preamp + power amp combined in a single unit.

If you can swing it for the Rotel RB-1590 power amp ($3k) or the Parasound Halo A21 power amp ($2500), it will be better choices than the Rotel RB-1582 Mkll amp. And you can still use the Rotel RC-1590 preamp/DAC with either the RB-1590 amp or the Parasound Halo A21 amp.
The Rotel RB-1590 sounded better than the RB-2582 Mkll aside from having more power. The RB-1590 is more resolving and has better details and transparency with larger soundstage and greater slams and punch than the RB-1582 Mkll.
Or the Parasound Halo A21 will be awesome too. I actually prefer the sound of the Halo A21 than any Rotel amps.
For the same price as the Rotel RB-1590 amp, the NAD M22 amp will be a better choice than the Rotel RB-1590 amp IMO. The Rotel RB-1590 is more powerful than the NAD M22 but the NAD M22 has better sonic fidelity, finess and refinements than the Rotel RB-1590.
Or if you can swing it for the Classe Sigma Amp2 power amp ($3500) that will even be better. If you ever consider this Classe Sigma Amp2 power amp I would suggest getting its matching Classe Sigma SSP preamp processor. The combo sounded phenomenal.
Or for cheaper alternative you csn just get the Classe Sigma 2200i integrated amp.....and that's it. You'll be done. You won't need anything else. This Sigma 2200i integrated retails for $5500.

Good luck and let us know what you finally decide on.

Tails65 wrote:

That's the main reason I won't get an AV receiver. I won't use any of their HDMI/streaming/wireless/video/codecs/other obsolete-in-3-years features.

For the same reason I have some resistance toward pre-amps: they have many features that I'll never use. That said, I'm now thinking of getting the Parasound Halo A21 or Rotel RB-1590 as power amp. At those prices, it doesn't make sense to save on the DAC. Then again, it's just a conversion and the work is done elsewhere.

A a USB DAC was looking at this unit, which indeed has a volume knob:
https://www.proaudiocentre.com/shop/studio/audio---midi-interfaces/products/m-track-hub.html
I have to put more research into it, though. Maybe it's a bad idea. Looks/placement-wise, an RC-1590 is much better too, of course.

I'm very grateful for your help. It'll be a while before I decide; a 1k$ decision is easier than a 5k$ one.

Hi Tails65, just get the Classe Sigma 2200i integrated amp for $5500. That's all you need. It is a preamp + power amp combined in a single chassis. Connect your computer via USB to this unit. This unit has two USB inputs, coax digital and optical digital (toslink) inputs.
This is a new model from Classe Sigma series. Like the rest of the Sigma series amplifiers this unit uses class D or digital amplifier circuitry. With this unit, Classe eliminates DAC (Digital Analog Converter) and ADC (Analog Digital Converter) and the digital signal is kept digital all the way until the amplifier output buffer in order to avoid back to back conversions and potential noise generated by analog signal in analog domain. It is a great sounding integrated and is very capable to handle low impedance speaker loads. This integrated will drive any difficult speakers with ease.