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andy19191
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

> Well I for one DO blame JA and Stereophile for dropping the ball on this but I suppose accountability
> isn't one of JA's attributes.

Accountable to what/whom?

JSBach
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
> Well I for one DO blame JA and Stereophile for dropping the ball on this but I suppose accountability
> isn't one of JA's attributes.

Accountable to what/whom?


To any sane person who makes purchase decisions on what they hear, not just on what they read, all of this is a non issue.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

David L.

Get a life and go somewhere else. I think you are a shill for another magazine trying to slander the staff of Stereophile. got ya!

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Dude, put 'em on your Visa, audition them, then get a refund.

No cost to you.

You do have some plastic, yes?

Travel to the shows is an investment, dude. And fun. You should go hear the stuff you deplore.

Why would I bother buying magic bowls that do nothing? You seem to have a great interest in them so tell you what, YOU buy them and test them and write a review on here THEN you can sell your review for Ted to use by giving your permission and he will probably either refund you the price of the bowls or give them to you for free. Looks like a good racket that everyone should take advantage of since Stereophile doesn't care.Imagine Buddah, you can get some FREE magic bowls that do nothing from Ted just by shilling

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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> As Eric Arjes is not Ted Denney, your point is moot.

May I ask what has lead you to this conclusion?

JA has magic abilities to tell who writes what on here

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
> Well I for one DO blame JA and Stereophile for dropping the ball on this but I suppose accountability
> isn't one of JA's attributes.

Accountable to what/whom?

JA said he would get a third party to test the bowls, the third party backs out because of MY attitude, JA says it's over with and won't bother trying. That's great product testing

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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David L.

Get a life and go somewhere else. I think you are a shill for another magazine trying to slander the staff of Stereophile. got ya!

Michigan J Frog is that you?

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Quote:

Quote:
As Eric Arjes is not Ted Denney, your point is moot.

May I ask what has lead you to this conclusion?

JA has magic abilities to tell who writes what on here

Both Ariel Bitran and Stephen Mejias investigated the IP addresses used by Eric Arjes and Ted Denney and there is nothing to suggest that Ted is posting as Eric (or vice versa). Their writing styles are also different. It is the sign of the perenially paranoid when someone thinks that everyone who posts different opinions to his own is actually just one person with multiple sockpuppets.

And again I have to as the question, David L.: if you don't read Stereophile and you dislike what is posted on its website, why do you even post to this forum?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Both Ariel Bitran and Stephen Mejias investigated the IP addresses used by Eric Arjes and Ted Denney and there is nothing to suggest that Ted is posting as Eric (or vice versa). Their writing styles are also different. It is the sign of the perenially paranoid when someone thinks that everyone who posts different opinions to his own is actually just one person with multiple sockpuppets.

And again I have to as the question, David L.: if you don't read Stereophile and you dislike what is posted on its website, why do you even post to this forum?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Hmmmmm you must be refering to Michigan J Frog and Jan Vigne with the sockpuppet reference

Hey can I write a glowing review on the forums about some one elses products and give them my permission to use it as free advertisement on their website? I see a growing opportunity for all of us to get some extra income thanks to Stereophile

Awwwww don't you want me around anymore JA?
I was just following the continuing saga of Ted's Magic Bowls and wondering why you never got them tested is all.So where's your write up about the demo? Will be interesting to "hear" all about it no doubt and will put all questions to rest, I mean Ted is known for his detailed testing and measurements

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:

Dude, put 'em on your Visa, audition them, then get a refund.

No cost to you.

You do have some plastic, yes?

Travel to the shows is an investment, dude. And fun. You should go hear the stuff you deplore.

Why would I bother buying magic bowls that do nothing? You seem to have a great interest in them so tell you what, YOU buy them and test them and write a review on here THEN you can sell your review for Ted to use by giving your permission and he will probably either refund you the price of the bowls or give them to you for free. Looks like a good racket that everyone should take advantage of since Stereophile doesn't care.Imagine Buddah, you can get some FREE magic bowls that do nothing from Ted just by shilling

You wouldn't be buying them. Your payment could be viewed as a deposit, fully refunded after auditioning them in your home in the way you wish.

REPEAT: Your cost would be a net zero....just like the shills.

At this point, you are just tossing shit around about free bowls for Ted's cronies, JA's unethical disinterest in testing the bowls, etc.

Stay on point:

Perhaps JA didn't feel the bowls "review worthy," either. No matter what his results, Ted could opine as you do, only 180 degrees opposite....and he would have had the honor of his product being deemed 'serious' enough to warrant and audition.

You are making zero sense, in total.

You could audition them yourself for no net cost, but you won't.

You could go to a free demo, but you won't travel. Fine, but if your hobby is so solipsistic, why bother the rest of us when it's your inability to check the product out that is really the issue?

I've been in the room with the bowls, too....I go to shows. Same with the faux tweaks sold by he/she-whose-name-shall-not-be-spoken, lest he/she appear.

Here's your big chance - get the bowls, pretend you listened, which I doubt you would/could, return them for a full refund, and then post your scathing anti-review after you get your money!

Win/win for you - you get to appear like you actually tried them, then you have the chance to say whatever bad things about them you desire. And, you'd be allowed to post here...just like the now departed (fitcional?) Eric.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Wow "dude" get a grip yourself. Your obsession with me getting the bowls is borderline scary
So you've been in the room with the bowls have you? What are your opinions about them then and why haven't you shared your thoughts about them yet?
AGAIN why would I bother buying Ted's magic bowls when they do NOTHING???? YOU stay on point and take your meds and calm down "dude"
You want me to spend money to travel across the country to "listen" to Ted's crappy bowls, then spend $3000 even if it is refundable just to listen for myself. I thought JA was going to have them TESTED????? .....you're one strange person. Tell you what, you write up what your impressions were and Ted will pay you for it.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Point is, I am not a "bowl-iever," you are just being a dick.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Point is, I am not a "bowl-iever," you are just being a dick.

Wow, that really came from deep in the BOWLes, or something.

But, yes, David, you are being a bit persistant. It's what the Cat Geoffrey wants, you see, so he can play with his attempted prey.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
Point is, I am not a "bowl-iever," you are just being a dick.

Ahhhhhh so you listened to the bowls but have "no commnent" about them yet you keep on and on with wanting me to give them a listen
If being a "dick" on here was a crime most if not all of us would be convicted sooner or later

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:
Point is, I am not a "bowl-iever," you are just being a dick.

Wow, that really came from deep in the BOWLes, or something.

But, yes, David, you are being a bit persistant. It's what the Cat Geoffrey wants, you see, so he can play with his attempted prey.

He must be really bored lately. I guess we need to bring back May Belt

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Here's your big chance - get the bowls, pretend you listened, which I doubt you would/could, return them for a full refund, and then post your scathing anti-review after you get your money!

I suspect that the reason David L. does not want to have any first-hand experience of the bowls is that he could not handle what might happen if there _was_ an audible difference. He might try to explain away what he perceived but deep down inside, he would still know that he had experienced something for which there was not a scientific explanation. Scary stuff!

And that's why he is so desperate for a third party to test the bowls. If the result of the test were positive, he could continue ridiculing the magazine; if the result were negative, he would feel vindicated in his skepticism. Either way, his own belief system would not be under threat.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:
Here's your big chance - get the bowls, pretend you listened, which I doubt you would/could, return them for a full refund, and then post your scathing anti-review after you get your money!

I suspect that the reason David L. does not want to have any first-hand experience of the bowls is that he could not handle what might happen if there _was_ an audible difference. He might try to explain away what he perceived but deep down inside, he would still know that he had experienced something for which there was not a scientific explanation. Scary stuff!

And that's why he is so desperate for a third party to test the bowls. If the result of the test were positive, he could continue ridiculing the magazine; if the result were negative, he would feel vindicated in his skepticism. Either way, his own belief system would not be under threat.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

That's some pretty funny stuff coming from the person who said he would be getting the testing done but FAILED to do so for the past what is it now......TWO YEARS?

"If".."might"....."shoulda woulda coulda"
Where's YOUR review of the bowls you said you would post Wednesday JA? Yet another FAIL on doing what you said you would?
I have no fear of anything that is posted on here but then again I think you do I think the bowls do NOTHING so prove me wrong.You're pretty good at delaying things. Remember the third party tester was YOUR idea not mine.

So lets recap........so far we have Buddha that claims to have heard the bowls in a system yet refuses to even discuss what they did or didn't do then we have JA who has not only said he would have them tested and FAILED to carry it out but also said he went to the demo and would post what he heard and FAILED to do even that much.
Gentlemen the ball is in your court. Either you will do as you say or your word means nothing simple as that.

David_L
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

JA's "education" growing up

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Here's your big chance - get the bowls, pretend you listened, which I doubt you would/could, return them for a full refund, and then post your scathing anti-review after you get your money!

I suspect that the reason David L. does not want to have any first-hand experience of the bowls is that he could not handle what might happen if there _was_ an audible difference. He might try to explain away what he perceived but deep down inside, he would still know that he had experienced something for which there was not a scientific explanation. Scary stuff!

And that's why he is so desperate for a third party to test the bowls. If the result of the test were positive, he could continue ridiculing the magazine; if the result were negative, he would feel vindicated in his skepticism. Either way, his own belief system would not be under threat.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

That's some pretty funny stuff coming from the person who said he would be getting the testing done but FAILED to do so for the past what is it now......TWO YEARS?

"If".."might"....."shoulda woulda coulda"
Where's YOUR review of the bowls you said you would post Wednesday JA? Yet another FAIL on doing what you said you would?
I have no fear of anything that is posted on here but then again I think you do I think the bowls do NOTHING so prove me wrong.You're pretty good at delaying things. Remember the third party tester was YOUR idea not mine.

So lets recap........so far we have Buddha that claims to have heard the bowls in a system yet refuses to even discuss what they did or didn't do then we have JA who has not only said he would have them tested and FAILED to carry it out but also said he went to the demo and would post what he heard and FAILED to do even that much.
Gentlemen the ball is in your court. Either you will do as you say or your word means nothing simple as that.

David L , to say you are being persistent is an understatement

I am highly skeptical of the bowls and snake oil in audio is annoying. However, I think you are hurting your own case with your attacks on Buddha and JA.
I suspect there are many people here who are skeptical of the bowls.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

JA, I don't think you are underhanded at all..nor do I question your motives.. but may I ask why there has not been a bigger push to get those devices tested? The only reason I want to see this is because Ted agreed to it, and someone involved with Stereophile stated that it would happen(was it you? can't remember).

I have my own theories. I don't question your motives, Mr. Atkinson. Your science based approach to Stereophile subject matter is refreshing, and provides the perfect counterpoint to the foo/mystical rhetoric that is so pervasive in Hifi these days. I am , however, saddened to see that there has not been a bigger push to test Ted Denney's products. If I were a gambling man, I might suggest that Ted wants nothing to do with testing and is fighting it tooth and nail. that is just a guess though.

anyway, Mr. Atkinson, keep doing your thing.. but PLEASE get those ART Products tested proper!!

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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I am highly skeptical of the bowls and snake oil in audio is annoying. However, I think you are hurting your own case with your attacks on Buddha and JA.

I suspect there are many people here who are skeptical of the bowls.

Skepticism -- healthy intellectual curiosity or unyielding, overly suspicious zeal? Who among us would NOT claim to have a healthy intellectual curiosity? I have a sneaking suspicion that measurements of the bowls might not assuage the concerns of either type of skeptic anymore than, say, meaurements of amplifiers, cables or speakers.

Skepticism is the Western philosophical tradition that maintains that human beings can never arrive at any kind of certain knowledge and is based on the following principles:

* There is no such thing as certainty in human knowledge.

* All human knowledge is only probably true, that is, true most of the time, or not true.

The hallmark of the Skeptic philosophers was caution; they refused to be caught in assertions that could be proven false. In fact, the entire system of skeptic philosophy was to present all knowledge as opinion only, that is, to assert nothing as true.

Socrates would never go about making any assertions or opinions whatsoever. Instead, he set about questioning people who claimed to have knowledge, ostensibly for the purpose of learning from them, using a judicial cross-examination, called elenchus . If someone made an assertion, such as, "Virtue means acting in accordance with public morality, " he would keep questioning the speaker until he had forced him into a contradiction. As in a court of law, this contradiction proved that the speaker was lying in some way, in this case, that the speaker did not really know what he claimed to know.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

David L , to say you are being persistent is an understatement

I am highly skeptical of the bowls and snake oil in audio is annoying. However, I think you are hurting your own case with your attacks on Buddha and JA.
I suspect there are many people here who are skeptical of the bowls.

My "attacks" as you put it are only in response to what I have been subjected to by the aforementioned participants. They have attempted to turn the tables and make me the subject of what is "wrong on Stereophile"."The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is my motto lately
Both Buddha and JA have heard the bowls in action yet don't feel it's worthwhile to share their experience. Kind of odd thing to do in an audio forum no? Is it......could it be........because of ME again?! *GASP!* You know I'm to blame for JA's "Third party engineer" refusing to do the tests don't ya? God forbid that I wield my MIGHTY powers and stop all research on this globe one day
Shall I change my name to Mr. Neutron? (The World's Most Dangerous Man)

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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I have a sneaking suspicion that measurements of the bowls might not assuage the concerns of either type of skeptic anymore than, say, meaurements of amplifiers, cables or speakers.

Ahhhhhh Geoff where have you been keeping yourself lately, been off recruiting up some shills to come on here and give your products some glowing "reviews" on the forums no doubt since Eric and Ted got away with it?

Measurements of cables? Where where? *looks around* oh you are talking about the imaginary measurements of cables in your head since "no one" does that! Those pesky measurements that prove scientific principles over and over pfffffffft. Who needs those, not you of course.........got any to show us for your products? Just asking

David_L
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Look out world I'm a menace to all things scientific!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Thank you Teddy Ray for having the balls to ask JA for the tests to be completed. Anyone else in here own a pair and want to tell JA to get on with it?

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Quote:
I am highly skeptical of the bowls and snake oil in audio is annoying. However, I think you are hurting your own case with your attacks on Buddha and JA.

I suspect there are many people here who are skeptical of the bowls.

Skepticism -- healthy intellectual curiosity or unyielding, overly suspicious zeal? Who among us would NOT claim to have a healthy intellectual curiosity? I have a sneaking suspicion that measurements of the bowls might not assuage the concerns of either type of skeptic anymore than, say, meaurements of amplifiers, cables or speakers.

Skepticism is the Western philosophical tradition that maintains that human beings can never arrive at any kind of certain knowledge and is based on the following principles:

* There is no such thing as certainty in human knowledge.

* All human knowledge is only probably true, that is, true most of the time, or not true.

The hallmark of the Skeptic philosophers was caution; they refused to be caught in assertions that could be proven false. In fact, the entire system of skeptic philosophy was to present all knowledge as opinion only, that is, to assert nothing as true.

Socrates would never go about making any assertions or opinions whatsoever. Instead, he set about questioning people who claimed to have knowledge, ostensibly for the purpose of learning from them, using a judicial cross-examination, called elenchus . If someone made an assertion, such as, "Virtue means acting in accordance with public morality, " he would keep questioning the speaker until he had forced him into a contradiction. As in a court of law, this contradiction proved that the speaker was lying in some way, in this case, that the speaker did not really know what he claimed to know.

Before you invoke the presence of the COD (confederacy of dunces), I would like to point out that Ted is the skeptic, not you.

You are fine with the laws of physics and acoustics, it is Ted who is the skeptic.

This is an important distinction, to ward off of the Sheldrake-zombie-reply-bot-drone attacks about "skepticism."

Happy to be of service.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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JA, I don't think you are underhanded at all..nor do I question your motives...

Thank you.


Quote:
but may I ask why there has not been a bigger push to get those devices tested? The only reason I want to see this is because Ted agreed to it, and someone involved with Stereophile stated that it would happen(was it you? can't remember).

That was me. I was discussing the bowls at the 2009 AES Convention with JJ and a mutual friend, following the Ethan Winer workshop. Our friend, who is a well-respected consulting engineer, had experienced the bowls at a dealer and felt, as did I, that a thorough examination would be a good subject for an article in Stereophile. For reasons that were discussed in this forum at length, that engineer backed out. I have not found anyone else with similar qualifications who is willing to take over the project.


Quote:
If I were a gambling man, I might suggest that Ted wants nothing to do with testing and is fighting it tooth and nail. that is just a guess though.

Ted has repeatably offered to send me a set of the bowls for a Stereophile review, and did so again at last week's Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I have been putting him off because I don't as yet have an author for the project.


Quote:
PLEASE get those ART Products tested proper!

To be honest, I really don't think the Synergistic Bowls significant enough a product for a full review in Stereophile (as opposed to an investigative article). Space in the magazine is limited, and to be frank there are many more conventional products more deserving of their day in the light. And as I have said before, my own feeling about the Synergistic ART devices is that their effect is most likely on the listener

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Measurements of cables? Where where? *looks around* oh you are talking about the imaginary measurements of cables in your head since "no one" does that!

How difficult could cable testing be? I bet you could do it. BTW I couldn't help notice you glossed over amplifier and speaker testing. How convenient.


Quote:
Those pesky measurements that prove scientific principles over and over pfffffffft.

Unfortunately, by mewling friend, measurements are overrated, if not entirely irelevant, when it comes to audio. Especially in those not infrequent cases when one's mind is already made up.

Apparently, the tiny bowls are a forgeone conclusion among the Skeptics. That's real scientific.

And I suppose we should forget, or at least discount, tests of the even tinier bowls that have already been performed, eh?

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

That about winds up any hope of YOU getting the tests done then Blah blah blah blah = " I just don't wanna" Fair enough.

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How difficult could cable testing be? I bet you could do it. BTW I couldn't help notice you glossed over amplifier and speaker testing. How convenient.


Quote:
Those pesky measurements that prove scientific principles over and over pfffffffft.

Unfortunately, by mewling friend, measurements are overrated, if not entirely irelevant, when it comes to audio. Especially in those not infrequent cases when one's mind is already made up.

Apparently, the tiny bowls are a forgeone conclusion among the Skeptics. That's real scientific.

And I suppose we should forget, or at least discount, tests of the even tinier bowls that have already been performed, eh?

For one thing Resident Troll (I presume JA was talking about you since you've been here the longest ) amps and speakers ARE tested in Stereophile or haven't you noticed? It's the expensive tweaks like cables, power cords and *cough magic bowls cough* that are NOT forsome odd reason.....hmmm could it be because the tests would show NOTHING or an adverse frequency response that just is a big NO NO in audioland? besides that would cut into advertising profits when badly reviewed products went bye bye.
Yes I could measure the magic bowls myself......you want to pony up the $3000 and send me some? In fact just about any competent audiophile with simple measuring hardware and software could have done the tests in 30 minutes or less INCLUDING DBT regardless of what JA stated in his above post of FAIL.
Geoff, the rest of your drivel post is funny as fuck. Of course measurements wouldn't matter to a seller of your products. Nothing = Nothing. Crap = Crap You wouldn't know what the scientific method was if it kicked you in the ass daily. Just go away and find some new ways to scam some dim witted customers please.

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In fact just about any competent audiophile with simple measuring hardware and software could have done the tests in 30 minutes or less INCLUDING DBT...

To the simple, everything appears simple.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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Quote:
In fact just about any competent audiophile with simple measuring hardware and software could have done the tests in 30 minutes or less INCLUDING DBT...

To the simple, everything appears simple.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

JA belive me when I say YOU are not close to being a genius not by a LONG shot
To the lazy and incompetent the simple tests are just not worth the effort

David_L

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

JA belive me when I say YOU are not close to being a genius not by a LONG shot
To the lazy and incompetent the simple tests are just not worth the effort

David_L

Totally disagree. Ever since I subscribed to Stereophile back in 1994, JA's exhaustive tests and measurements are as concise, if not moreso than ANY reviewer out there in my humble opinion.

Mark

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the past 2 years with JA NOT getting the simple tests done on the magic bowls........having just read JA's blog report on going to Ted's "demo" and seeing that nothing came about of any consequence nor shall it ever come about here either, I can honestly say I am DONE. Adios and goodbye, I know everyone will miss me

I shall not ever again grace these halls of ineptitude nor bother the "hangers on" that will slowly wither away and fall to the side of the road of Audio Tweak Craziness. Speak of me as you wish for I shall never look back nor come back to read anything here on the forums or the website. I am free and happy to be going from this hole. Toodles

David_L
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

My parting gift to those I cherish most here........

Buddha
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

I wish you nothing but success in your endeavor.

If you do actually go away and stay away, you'll be the first to ever storm off a forum and not come back.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

...mewling...

You're welcome.

It's always a pleasure to see the vocabulary taken up by others!

There's a few others I've noticed, padowan.

I'd love to know - since measurements are irrlevant in audio, why, then, it matters what time appears on your clocks? That'as a very objective and "necessary" measurement to you, it seems.

andy19191
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Hmmm... JA's recent statements here and in the show report suggests Stereophile is not going to try to embrace products like these bowls in the same way as cables. A pity because it would have been fun observing the attempt with perhaps the odd prod now and again. I guess this saga is now probably going to draw to a close.

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Quote:

Quote:

...mewling...

You're welcome.

It's always a pleasure to see the vocabulary taken up by others!

There's a few others I've noticed, padowan.

I'd love to know - since measurements are irrlevant in audio, why, then, it matters what time appears on your clocks? That'as a very objective and "necessary" measurement to you, it seems.

I don't know about that, Kemo Sabe, I prefer to regard the time displayed on the clock as a setting or "design feature" - like, say, crossover frequency, like time, best set by ear cluck cluck. As opposed to measured performance, you know, like signal to noise ratio or frequency response, that sort of thing.

Editor
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
Hmmm... JA's recent statements here and in the show report suggests Stereophile is not going to try to embrace products like these bowls in the same way as cables.

Intellectually, I _know_ these devices can't have a physical effect at relevant frequencies. But my ears tell me that they _are_ having an effect. Frankly, I am baffled.


Quote:
I guess this saga is now probably going to draw to a close.

As far as I am concerned for now, yes. I need to file the data away and await further developments.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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Intellectually, I _know_ these devices can't have a physical effect at relevant frequencies. But my ears tell me that they _are_ having an effect. Frankly, I am baffled.


Every physical object in the universe resonates at a characteristic frequency(s?) even if you struggle with a particular design to minimize such vibrations.
Why not attach an accelerometer to one of these contentious whatnots, just as is done with tone arms, and see what's really going on? Is that such a tall order?

Buddha
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

There is actually a bit of similar history to this sort of tweak. There was a tweaker at another site who used to buy and compare glass vases to put on room cornners and other locations and report on the effects.

Ms. Mordentroge could try this herself for next to no cost. If it doesn't work, you still have two vessels to hold flower arrangements!

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Why not attach an accelerometer to one of these contentious whatnots, just as is done with tone arms, and see what's really going on? Is that such a tall order?

If you tap the bowls, you hear them vibrate at a very high frequency, far too high to have any effect on low-frequency sound. All an accelerometer would do would confirm that fact.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

j_j
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:
Why not attach an accelerometer to one of these contentious whatnots, just as is done with tone arms, and see what's really going on? Is that such a tall order?

If you tap the bowls, you hear them vibrate at a very high frequency, far too high to have any effect on low-frequency sound. All an accelerometer would do would confirm that fact.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

Cheap sets of bongos are not that hard to come by, either.

ncdrawl
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers

Madame Mordentroge, I had no idea you were a trucker!!

(avatar pic)

Buddha
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Cheap sets of bongos are not that hard to come by, either.

Well, fake bongos, maybe. Real ones cost extra.

We're talking about chicks now, right?

JSBach
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


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Madame Mordentroge, I had no idea you were a trucker!!

(avatar pic)


It's the horn loaded speakers that are supposed to attract your attention, not the trucker! HMM.
And no, I'm not nor never have been a trucker although as a rampant teenage slut I made a habit of hitch-hiking from Melbourne to Sydney with truckers. The rest I'll leave to your fertile imagination.

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
If you tap the bowls, you hear them vibrate at a very high frequency, far too high to have any effect on low-frequency sound. All an accelerometer would do would confirm that fact.

If you can hear them vibrate at a very high frequency might they not have a very subtle effect on upper treble perception?
Not necessarily a good thing, in fact it might be as un-welcome as having a Steinway or a sitar sighted next to your speakers. Both these I've heard 'sing along' with audio in a noticeable manner.
I've encountered tube heads (valve heads outside the US of A) who actually preferred preamplifiers with microphonics affecting the tubes/valves. I once ran a Counterpoint SA5 preamp that did just this. I didn't like the mushy ambient glow it painted everything with. Others loved it. Is it just possible that these bowl things are 'singing along' too?

geoffkait
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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:

Quote:
If you tap the bowls, you hear them vibrate at a very high frequency, far too high to have any effect on low-frequency sound. All an accelerometer would do would confirm that fact.

If you can hear them vibrate at a very high frequency might they not have a very subtle effect on upper treble perception?
Not necessarily a good thing, in fact it might be as un-welcome as having a Steinway or a sitar sighted next to your speakers. Both these I've heard 'sing along' with audio in a noticeable manner.
I've encountered tube heads (valve heads outside the US of A) who actually preferred preamplifiers with microphonics affecting the tubes/valves. I once ran a Counterpoint SA5 preamp that did just this. I didn't like the mushy ambient glow it painted everything with. Others loved it. Is it just possible that these bowl things are 'singing along' too?

For those having trouble wrapping their heads around the ART bowls please allow me to point out that the similar Tchang bowls are smaller still, in fact about a third the diameter if the ART bowls. It is also worth repeating the Tchang bowls have been around for about ten years, not only that but have been reviewed, debated and measured to death

For those who like challenges (I know you're out there), or perhaps torture, I offer for your consideration another Tchang resonator - the Sugar Cubes (not to be confused with the Bjork punk rock group). Each Sugar Cube is a 1 cm rosewood cube with (dare I say it?) a 1 mm diameter hole drilled in the center of one face. Yes, you read correctly, 1 mm. The Sugar Cubes (17 per kit) are placed in strategic locations on walls of the room. Almost makes one wish to resurrect the thread, How Small Can Things Be and Still Make a Worthwhile Improvement. Sigh....

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Re: Are "Reviews" here in the Forums To Be Used by Manufacturers


Quote:
It appears you and I are seperated by a "sarchasm.'

Just starting this thread and do not have an opinion as yet...that said, this is a very good line...

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