jdegann
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Amplifier to pair with Dynaudio Excite X12 - the next step
commsysman
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jdegann wrote:

Thanks to those who responded to this initial question. I ended up going with the Cambridge Audio Azur 851A.

...and I'm underwhelmed. I find the sound to be a little brittle. I ain't hearing much warmth. So my question is: what to do? I must believe I have good equipment that is well matched, based on advice given. Since the Azur is powerful, I was expecting to hear a big sound by just turning the volume up a little - but that's not the case. When I listen to a CD, I'm going up there -46db for casual listening, -35db or more for something stimulating.

My CD player is Cambridge Audio Azur 640c.

Am I just expecting something odd? Do I need an upgraded DAC? There doesn't seem much room for "adding" anything. My speaker cables are Transparent, so it is not as though I'm using old Radio Shack wire.

I don't think what you describe is due to the amplifier; my experience with Cambridge amplifiers is that they are pretty good-sounding, and even on the warm side compared to some. The speakers are certainly not the problem, although they are very revealing and will tell you when there is a problem in your system.

I think the player is where the problem lies. I have read several comments online including some professional reviews that have said the 640C is not up to Cambridge's usual standards of sound quality. One reliable magazine rated Marantz's least-expensive ($400) CD5005 player very good and did not like the 640C at all. Any company can occasionally come out with a dud, and this seems to be one of those cases. I have also noticed that Audio Advisor, which was selling the 640C, has dropped it. I suspect they were getting negative feedback from customers on it.

I suggest that you get an OPPO BDP-105 player, which is as good as they get; even for 3 or 4 times as much money it would be hard to get one that sounds better. I think the improvement over what you have now will be in the "jaw-dropping" category. It has state-of-the-art conversion chips which are far superior to what your current player uses, and the sound quality is incredibly good.The Marantz UD7007 is also very good, but costs the same and has no additional features.

Also, with the BDP-105 (or UD7007) you can run XLR balanced cables from it to the amplifier, which will also eliminate a potential sonic issue. Balanced cables are far superior and quite inexpensive and always much much better than coaxial cables. Balanced XLR cables inherently have over 10,000 times less susceptibility to noise or interference compared to unbalanced (coaxial/RCA cables).

You will notice that Inputs 1 and 2 on your amplifier are balanced inputs, which will give superior sound quality when balanced cables are connected to them from equipment with balanced outputs (like the BDP-105).

In recording studios and high-quality audio systems, balanced cables are always used. Unbalanced cables are considered unacceptable for systems where the highest sound quality is needed. It is too bad that consumer audio equipment still uses them because they are 2nd-rate.

(These balanced XLR cables are top-quality and have gold-plated contacts and are reasonably priced- Monoprice #4750, 4751, and 4752; highly recommended. "Premium" cables sold at much higher prices will perform no better) (monoprice.com) They are sold singly, so one must order two cables.

P.S.- I think you get the best price and fastest delivery on the BDP-105 by ordering direct from OPPO on their website.

jdegann
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I am not in position to replace my CD player with a $1300 unit, whatever its merits. However, the point about the balanced outputs was duly noted. *Assuming* that a DAC would be a good way to upgrade my existing Azur CD player, I do notice that affordable ($300) DACs seem to use RCA cables. I guess it is significantly more expensive to have a balanced output or it would be more common.

commsysman
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I am sorry that is not possible. I would have thought that with an amp that lists at $1800 or so, and speakers that cost around $1200, you would want a source that would really make your system shine and that this would be the one for you.

The OPPO BDP-103, however, can be ordered from OPPO for $499, and will be a huge improvement over the player you have. It does not have balanced outputs, but to keep the price down it has to be so. It is probably the best player available for under $1000, so I am sure you will enjoy the improvement.

IF you have good-quality interconnects, a balanced connection is not essential. With a balanced connection, one does not have to concern oneself with interconnects at all, because they are invariably inherently superior. With unbalanced/RCA cables, there is a big variable there.

The BDP-103 just might be good enough that you will not even want to consider an upgrade from it at all.

I do not think that adding an external DAC to your player would work out very well; better to have a player that has DAC circuits engineered as an integral part of the disc playback system, internally.

jdegann
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It's not unreasonable to infer that I'd be in the market for the OPPO BDP-105 - but in my case it won't work. The $500 for the OPPO-103 is certainly worth a look.

My financial situation now is that even getting a new CD player, while not out of the question, won't look good to the family. :) The DAC would be... less conspicuous. Plus, while I hear your argument that it's better to have it all in one package, it also seemed that if the transport does its job, the DAC is all I need. In my earlier thread, which you were on, one person did advise looking into an upgraded DAC, so that's what set me in that direction.

I think I'll hold tight for now, and maybe look into selling my Azur (which won't get much since it has mechanical problems with the tray) and then consider the BDP-103. Another consideration is, at this point, I kinda want to hear what the darned thing will do with my own ears before I keep spending money. Unfortunately, these days, even in LA, B&M retailers mostly have bitten the dust.

commsysman
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OPPO lists Magnolia as a stocking dealer, and they have about 20 locations in LA and Orange County.

There is no guarantee that a particular location can do a demo, but you can call ahead to investigate.

Nellomilanese
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I have the Oppo 103 paired with a CA amp and the sound is excellent...it's actually slight on the warm side. Cds that were harsh b4 now are tamed.
I think if you sell the cd player (for a slight loss) you add a couple hundred dollars (which you'd have to spend for a new dac anyway) and just get the Oppo.

cri_stroe
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so i bought the Dynaudio Excite X12 and the guys in the shop recomended me the Yamaha MusicCast RX-V681 but when i turn the volume up it just shuts down! Can anybody tell me why that happens and what would be more suitable?

commsysman
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That Yamaha receiver is a typical Yamaha product; very short on power supply current and unable to drive your speakers without overload on peaks; a cheaply engineered product which they never would have recommended if they were knowledgeable.

They rate it as able to provide 90 watts per channels with 2 channels driven, but only at 8 ohms. Your speakers have lower impedance and require much more peak current than it can provide.

The Musical Fidelity M3si would be a much better choice, or the Music Hall 15.3.

commsysman
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The kind of tests that Yamaha and many other makers of the less expensive multi-channel receivers are deceptive, to say the least. They are supposedly able to drive 5 or 7 speakers, yet the only spec they give is for only two channels, and only for 8 ohms. This does not tell you that the receiver has a cheap power supply with limited peak current capability, which means that it won't be able to drive lower-impedance speakers and will have very limited power when driving multiple channels.

Their specs are like the false fronts that movie makers put up for a quick shoot; they have a certain given height and width, but there is nothing behind it! No substance!

The lesson to be learned is to NEVER use the power ratings given by a manufacturer to shop or compare amplifiers or receivers, because they are giving you incomplete and misleading information. Quite often a much more capable amplifier with a better power supply will seem have a lower power rating, but be much more capable of driving real speakers with greater dynamics and less distortion.

bierfeldt
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I agree with commsysman on the Musical Fidelity unit but would be more wary of the Music Hall. The musical fidelity unti is 85w or 95w. I have a similarly innefiecinet speaker in the Revel Performa3 M105 to the Dynaudios and can say will confidence that 50w was not enough to to drive them well. I used a Rega Brio R to drive the Revels and it was a little sad sounding. The Music Hall won't literally shut down the way your Yamaha is but you may find the sound will thin a bit when the volume is turned up. I would look for a bit more power. There are many options but they will cost a bit more. The Cambridge CXA80 at $999, the NAD 356BEE at I think $799 or $899 is a good choice and I am a big fan of the Rogue Audio Sphinx which I think is $1399. Also, check out demos and deal items at Crutchfield, AudioAdvisor, Needledoctor and Music Direct and look for 75w into 8 ohms and it needs to be stable at 4 ohms.

commsysman
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I have had several NAD amplifiers over the years, and liked them all...EXCEPT the C356BEE.

I didn't like mine and got rid of it.

I strongly recommend that you not consider it.

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