I have a pair of mint condition Klipsch KG4 speakers from 1985 that i am using with a Denon PMA 757 amp and i want to up grade to something that will sound significantly better.I may go to a tube amp if i cant find a SS that sounds better than my old Denon.Any ideas on a tube or SS amp that will make upgrading worth the cost?My 1985 Klipsch KG4 may not be the first choice of speaker for many but to my ears it still is a good performer that can hopefully be made even better with the right amp.Any input will be appreciated.
Checkout some AVA of course. Got SS got Hybrids all great stuff. Send an e-mail to Frank VanAlstine, or call him see whaat he recomends for those speakers. www.avahifi.com AND his stuff doesn't need a bank loan to purchase, mortal prices for top end sound and reliability.
These are great, classic speakers! They are very sensitive so they do not need much power. They sound great driven by a tube amp.
I would consider a Jolida or PrimaLuna amp as both are wonderful buys and affordable. Either would be a wonderful match for your spekaers and would produce an incredible midrange.
How would you like your speakers to sound better? I am assuming that you would like better harmonic accuracy and texture, better depth and more air. These are not headbanger speakers for fans of metal rock or the like.
Where are Jolida and Primalunana made. AVA are hand made in MN.....made to order. Last order I got was over 6 week lead time he isbusy, they must work as advertised
Nothing against Van Alstine's stuff, although I am not nearly as impressed with his work as you are. Frank lives about 15 minutes from me and I know his products well. I find it to be competant, generic, reasonably priced SS equipment.
Regardless, the Klipsch KG4's sound spectacular when driven by tubes - this is a highly synergistic match that SS amplification simply can't match.
On the other hand, SS amplification is perfect for your type of listening and associated equipment; I would not recommend tubes for your system and I feel safe in stating that you would hate them - if just on principle alone.
Bottom line: Each system and listener is different. Each thus has different needs and requirements that cannot be met with the same equipment.
Elk i have been researching the Jolida amps and they seem like they would be a good match for my KG4.I am going to try to stay under $1200 for the amp and i will also be buying a new Tuner and CD player.As far as my speakers go i am looking for more detail,depth and dynamics.I believe the speakers have the potential if i match them with the proper amp.I play guitar and the difference between SS and tube amps there is huge so i am hoping that some of the better tube amps will give the same result with my KG4.If i go with a Jolida it would probably be direct from them without the benefit of trying it out first since there seems to be no dealers anywhere near me.
Have you called Jolida? You could give them a call or e-mail them to see if they have a dealer in your area: Tel: (301) 953-2014 firstname.lastname@example.org
Google for a dealer near you. When the search comes up drop in your state or the largest city near you.
"I play guitar and the difference between SS and tube amps there is huge so i am hoping that some of the better tube amps will give the same result with my KG4."
Exactly! I think you will be delighted with tubes and your speakers.
Do check out Upscale Audio and PrimaLuna as well:
Tell us what you decide and how it works out!
VanAlstine is both SS and he has HYBRID tue/Mosfet If you haven't tried his Hybrid stuff you are missing out. I use his Hybrid stuff and SS
Tube guitar amps are producing the sound/tone. Hi Fi is about reproducing it. You don't want the amps to make their own sound on what you are reproducing. Tube amps for guitar all about tone, full, overdriven tubes to create the sound if you want it overdriven, harmonics etc. The Hybrid stuff from AVA uses each Mosfet and tubes at their best. Check out the hybrid stuff at AVA www.avahifi.com Besides he is so close, what have you got to loose, I think he even has 30 day satisfaction guarantee.
Sorry Dup. Heard it. Not impressed. Generic sounding reasonably priced stuff made by a decent guy. This area is a hot bed for excellent high end equipment design and manufacturing. AVA is not a player in this leaque.
But I am glad you are satisfied with your choice. This is great. Seriously.
As to guitar amps, the only point is that if he can hear the difference between tubed and SS guitar amps he will hear the difference in amps used for sound reproduction. Some people unfortunatley can't hear the difference in either pairing.
I hear teh difference between the Komet, the Fuchs and some MArshalls, all tube, all have a different tone...my ears work better than a lot of folks. You ain't heard the latest Ultra series hybrid have you? I use hybrid pre amps with OmegaStar EX SS ckts in the amps around 4800W or so, Tube amps wouldn't have enough power. Who makes 1200-1400W tube amps? McIntosh nope VTL nope, AR nope, most are limited capacity...with absurd prices.
It doesn't take over 1,000 watts to drive a pair of KG 4's. They are 94dB efficient and are not made for headbangers anyway. They love tubes and sound much better with tubes than SS. It's just the way it is.
I've heard the AVA hybrid. Perfectly fine, but nothing special. But if you are greatly impressed with it, that's great.
No such thing as too many watts. remeber to double the volume it takes 10X the power...unless you don't listen to realistic live reproduction. Deep bass with crytal clear hihgs needs watts. While the midrange remains natural and smooth. 1000W is hardly much for lifelike reproduction. My speakers are sorta efficient...with more watts they just got better and better. A few hundred at first, then double that than 4X..each time it didn't get louder it got better...more detailed, more natural much much better, sound just opens up, more control of teh drivers. Watts matter. Lifelike live levels is not "headbangers" 106dB is LIVE. To maintain lifelike no distortion ....no restriction, low watts makes for lifless dead sound..try it, you'll hear. Take any fairly good speaker, first one amp say 200W pc. then bi amp then quad amp, not louder, just better. Using teh same wires of course. And more AC ckts
Carl, we all know that you have a singular view of the world and you are unable to imagine that there are other possibilities.
Again, I am glad you have found what you like. However, there are many of us that are not impressed with your preferences.
Not talking brands, talking basic sound reproduction facts. Use any brand amps, and speakers..more watts better sound. Use the same amps Whether some grossly overpriced 10w magic tube amps, or cheap QSC work horses. More watts better control, more open spaciaous sound. Never heard a live concert that worked with a 10 watt amp, and filled a place with un restrained sound. If you want detail and clarity, and be able to keep bass notes from turing to mud, while trying to keep the sparkel in teh cymbals and the resonance of a fine Gibson wailing away, it takes watts, to keep it clean, otherwise it becomes a muddy blurr. It worked years ago on smaller systems using 70's technology speakers and amps, it works in the 21st century. Watts there is no substitute. Well there is, restricted muffled, lifless sound when there is not enough power to move the speakers when called on to do it. No amount of maigc connectors etc will replace the power to move air when needed. Movie theatres, live events, power to create the sound.
Never heard a live concert that worked with a 10 watt amp . . . Movie theatres, live events, power to create the sound.
Many of us do not want to recreate the sound of a movie theater in our homes, nor do we want everything to sound like a loud amplified electronic band performing at a live event. You do and this is fine.
Many prefer the sound of live unamplified acoustic instruments. A powerful inexpensive SS QSC amp is not the way to accomplish this.
Last night I recorded a five piece brass ensemble in a 150 year old large stone church. I used a single pair of ribbon mics (ORTF, 7' feet away from the front of the ensemble, 9' high). The resulting recorded sound wonderfully captures the warmth and power of live brass in a reverberant space, especially when played back using a large tube amp and accurate high-end speakers (that many studios use for mixing and mastering). The subtle transient attacks, the delicate long reverb tails, the subtle clicking of rotary valves - it's all there, including tremendous dynamic range.
This sound would be deliciously and wonderfully reproduced by a pair of Klipsch KG 4 speakers and a nice tube amp. Much of the subtle detail would be lost if the same speakers were powered with a SS Crown PA amp - regardless of how much power it has.
I am sure that you would not like it. This is OK. I am not going to argue with your preferences.
Now to move on to more productive discussions . . .
Heard acoustic guitar just teh otehr night, LIVE on stage, Genz-Benz to give it some valume...this ain't folk music borefest, it's guitar master at work. You seem to confuse loud with detail and high res, I must be an expert then...cus' with teh proper stuff you get both, if you listen to stuff at realistic levels at home and you loose detilas, res, your system needs work, you are not listening to realistic sound if it sounds bad loud....time to update the amp and speakers. If your sound blurs at realistic levels, there is something wrong, probably not enough power to keep things going. Horn speakers are based on Pa stuff, how you equate this with such high rez, then dismiss high power amps, befuddles me. When the large horns like JBL Altec, Klipsch where used in theatres, it was cus teh tube amp available in teh 30's and 40's where limited in watts...they needed efficient horns. 21st century electronics has managed to improve on inadequete amplification. You use a Ribbon mic and play it back on a horn PA speaker? Should have ribbon speakers ribbon tweeters have improved big time, nothing like em for natural sparkling highs...horns are PA speakers, sicne you seem to think all heavy use high reliabilty ampos are for PA systems, why would you actually use PA speakers to listen to? Confused? The only way to use tubes is in hybrid capacity, no way for enough power out of a tube only amp, the thing would be giantic, put off so much wasted heat energy, who makes a 1400W or so all tube amp, not McIntosh? Not ARC? Watts, it does sound reproduction good. You seem to again think watts equates to a certain type of music, a certain concpet, only concpet it relates to is lifelike reproduction of any type music, which cannot be done with limited power. Blose markets stuff that might satisfy you then, high distortion, how power, marketed as "lifelike" But it must be a different lifelike than I normally encounter at live events. When the guitar wails, the drums snap the snares and cymbals while detailed bass lines all occur, reproducing it, ain't gonna happen with minimal power available, impossible, on any speaker, it's just not possible
You just don't get it Carl you're so damn stupid. Elk doesn't care what you think...he doesn't want to discuss it with you.
He can't discuss it with any sense of knowledge, he is stuck in audiophile blurr. Eventually the unkowning do learn. Even Elk.
Well i made some changes in my system that made a huge difference.I have been so pleased with my Denon amp that i decided to get another one of the same vintage(mid eighties)and i found a PMA 777 100 watt to replace my 757 80 watt version.I also bought a matching Denon tuner that is one step above what i had.This Denon equipment is in mint condition with the Rosewood side panels and it sounds excellent to my ear.I upgraded my speakers to a very nice set of Klipsch Cornwalls in Oak that are in very good shape.The idea of a tube amp still sounds interesting but honestly the sound of my Cornwalls with my Denon amp makes me wonder just how much better it could be.Sitting in front of these Cornwalls with Dire Straits (On Every Street)playing it would be hard to argue against the sound of horn mids and highs,the human voice sounds incredible on these speakers.I only have about 2000.00 total in this system and it sounds as good as some that i have heard that cost five times that.
All that matters is that your system makes music that speaks to you. Well done.