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October 27, 2015 - 10:42am
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Additional Speaker Advice Needed- Bookshelf or Floorstanders?
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If you like the sound of your current speakers, other than needing more bass, a subwoofer would be the logical solution.
I recommend the NHT B12D, which is excellent for the money and very free of colorations and resonances.
On the other hand, a set of good floorstanding speakers will certainly give much better bass than any bookshelf speaker is likely to.
The Infinity Primus P363 speakers are very good and retail for around $350 list price each. The Absolute Sound did a review on these recently which was very positive; you should read it online. These speakers will, IMO, be a big step up in sound quality in every respect compared to your current speakers.
Amazon, by the way, has a crazy low price on these right now...only $120 each!!!!!!. I have no idea why they would drop the price that much, but it is that low right now.
You might want to jump on that deal while it lasts.
Try and pop into the Harman audio store in midtown. They will have the Infinity Primus and Reference lines to listen to. I bought my Revels from them.
If you do a search on this site for Monitor Audio Silver and NYC there is a thread where I think Kal Rubinson mentioned a few displaying dealers in NYC that don't appear on the dealer finder via Monitor Audio's website.
You might also visit the Stereo Exchange which is in the East Village. They carry Totem, Focal and Sonus Faber along with Rogue and may be able to offer some guidance as to what will sound best if you lay out your parameters.
If you do opt to simply add a subwoofer, the NHT commsysman suggested is very nice. For about $50 more, the Sunfire HRS 8 I think is even nicer but you would be happy either way
Is there a benefit to getting a powered subwoofer?
A sealed powered subwoofer will deliver deep, high quality bass at relatively modest prices and with a mid price speaker, can prove to be a cost saving vs. the floorstanding counterpart.
For instance, I have Revel Performa3 M105s with a Sunfire Tru Super Junior. Retail combined cost of those is $2600 and can easily be driven with a 100w power amp due to the powered subwoofer.
I could have purchased Revel Perfoma 3 F206s for $3500 or F208s for $5K. There is no question they would sound better. However, my out of pocket spend on the speakers would be dramatically higher, they won't fit easily in my room and I would need a much more powerful power amp to drive them which is also going to increase my out of pocket spend.
IMO, the improvement in quality and the added inconvenience isn't worth the incremental $3K to $4500 I would need to spend. Thus, I feel I am getting close to full range speaker quality at a fraction of the price.
If I had a more liberal budget and plenty of space, the floor standers are awesome and are always going to win in quality. As an admittedly frugal audiophile, I feel bookshelf speakers with a powered sub are a very happy compromise.
This math holds up very well when looking at Monitor Audio Gold, Revel Performa 3, Wharfedale Jade, B&W CM, Dynaudio Excite Level. In the tier below that, it makes less sense if you have the space for floorstanding speakers.
For example, if I had a choice between Monitor Audio Silver 2s and Sunfire HRS 8 or a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8s which are priced very similarly, I would take the Silver 8s assuming I had the power to drive them.
BTW...glad to hear you are happy with the Peachtree DAC.
I really appreciate your advice.
The monitor silver 2s go down to 40 Hz which seems to exceed most other book shelf speakers in that range. So is a sub really necessary with these, every thing else being equal.
Are there any other budget powered subs aside from the Sunfire you can recommend? And would they be compatible with Mag mmg's- which I've mentioned before as being awesome?
Thanks again for your patient and sage advice!
In general, the only instrument that goes below 40hz typically used in rock, classical or jazz is the piano which drops to 27.5hz. From a strictly analytic perspective, only the bottom end of a piano would fall below the range of the speaker. Bass drums and bass guitars tuned normally only go down to about 40hz.
That being said, there are effects and resonances that will drop below 40hz that IMO, add to the charm of the music you listen to. Two good examples of this would be Three Wishes from Roger Waters off of Amused to Death. The voice of the Djinni falls way below 40hz and it changes the dynamic of the song. Another would be A View to a Kill from Duran Duran. The bass line needs a crisp, clean speaker to reproduce it and the low end of bookshelf speakers I have heard fall short. There are plenty of other examples, these are just two that come to mind.
Optimal for music IMO would be a low end of 27.5hz as that would capture the bottom end of a piano's range and will deliver most effects. That being said, I had a pair of Infinity Kappa 8.1s for a long time that had a low end response of 32hz and personally was quite pleased with the bass.
For other subs, you have a few choices and it is driven by the need for a sealed subwoofer design vs a ported design. Most audiophiles prefer a sealed design due to the fact that it tends to deliver crisper, more refined bass compared to ported units. There are exceptions. Additionally, what you will not get is the big, boomy bass that one thinks of with home theater. In fact, when I bought my home theater system, my dealer warned me that a lot of consumers didn't like the Sunfires because they weren't boomy enough and don't deliver that chest rattling bass they expected.
Let me also offer a caveat as to why I like Sunfire. It stems from the fact that I have two Sunfire Subs and am extremely happy with them and additionally, my first audiophile system was from Carver. Bob Carver was the designer for both companies and I have had good experiences and a favorable opinion.
NHT makes a B-10d for $599 and the B-12d for $799. The size of the woofer and power output is driving the differential in price. NHT makes a great product. I believe your room is fairly small. You may find the B-10d to be adequate for your needs.
Another option is the SVS SB-1000. Depending on finish, it is $499 to $599. It is a sealed sub and gets great reviews. A pal of mine picked one of these up and in the brief listen I gave it, it sounded great.
The SVS delivers slightly deeper bass than the NHTs. The power output vs the B-10d is the same. For some reason, I feel that NHT is a slightly better product but I don't have any hard justification for that. It is just a feeling.
Rel and JL Audio make amazing subwoofers but they tend to cost a bit more than the ones I mentioned above.
These would be you best options for integration with a refined bookshelf speaker. I have never integrated a subwoofer with a pair of Maggies personally. My local dealer features Rel subs with all the speakers they sell including Maggies. I would discuss it with a dealer, but rationally I would think that the NHT, SVS and Sunfires would be good alternatives.
Finally, my advice and everyone's advice in these forums is likely worth what you paid for it. It can't be a substitute for getting out and listening to this equipment or better yet, doing an in-home demo wherever possible.
On a side note, one other speaker you may want to look at is the PSB Imagine X2T. They are a hair above your budget at $1300 but worth your time. I spent about an hour listening to these while demoing Ayre Acoustics equipment. My entire listening experience was incredible. I bought the preamp, thought about buying the power amp and walked away with a fabulous opinion of these speakers and Sony's new network streamer. In fact, I have never heard a PSB product I didn't like. They are neutral and detailed without being forward at all and typically represent a great value.
Try and listen in a dealer or you can do an in-home demo from Crutchfield.