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CECE
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$99 wall outlets!!!

For a residential envrioament!!! Commercial grade doesn't go for that much!!! too bad he doesn't understand NEC requirments!! You cannot install a 20A receptale on a 15 A ckt!! What a maroon. You can install 15a DUplex on a 20a ckt look at kitchen counter ckts. And of course he claimes the body/housing makes things sound better!!! this is teh kind of nonsense that is in audiophile village, village of nudnicks. UL doesn't "approve" anything, they LIST for a specific use. another gaff by the marketeers of nonsense. They wanna say approved becasue that term is bandied about to teh unknowing. This is as dopey as the other outfit with "audio grade" outlets. Too bad there is no such thing on this planet. http://www.psaudio.com/products/powerportpremier.asp

CECE
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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Then i plug one of these magic things into it, and pretty soon i have a few hundred dollars on teh wall, doing nothing, when your properly designed electronics don't need magic wall outlets. How come Furman units don't have blinking LED for their products? You mean their stuff with UL listings don't "harvest" noise....? http://www.psaudio.com/products/noiseharvester_overview.asp

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

DUP

As usual you are talking uninformed trash.

UL constantly approves products, hence the term UL approved. You think UL exists for UL lists ?, it lists its approved products !!

Alan

CECE
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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

UL never uses the term APPROVED, advertisers and marketeers do....look into it. They list products for specific uses. Funny how words mean something. UL Listed, is what is on teh UL stickers, or UL Ru for components in an assy, which doesn't mean teh assy is UL LISTED. Do some research.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
UL never uses the term APPROVED, advertisers and marketeers do....look into it. They list products for specific uses. Funny how words mean something. UL Listed, is what is on teh UL stickers, or UL Ru for components in an assy, which doesn't mean teh assy is UL LISTED. Do some research.


Quote:
UL is the trusted source across the globe for product compliance.


Product Compliance


Quote:
UL must evaluate modifications to certified products before the modified product is authorized to bear the Mark or be considered certified.


Authorized


Quote:
Only UL reviews the results of all testing and evaluation and decides if the product is eligible for certification.

Decides IF the product is eligible for certification.

Kinda hard to allow certification if the product is not approved by UL. Are you saying the outlets are not UL certified?

All copper so specially made.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

UL LISTED, UL does not use the term "approved". Have you read any UL stickers lately, go to their web site and get an education on UL Listings, not approvals. Wurds mean something. Same holds for ETL and other testing labs. Look into UL literature how they have books upon books of UL standards on their LISTING requirements. They also us R?U for a RECOGNIZED component, not an APPROVED component. Wurds have meanings, that why there are so many of em. When ya get an electrical inspection, the stickers have the term approval...not listed, why is that anyway, must be, they mean different things. UL tests for compliance for a listed purpose. When a marketeer is calling their stuff UL Approved, just what did UL approve it for? Is that on the packaging, nooooo, but the UL listed uses are, for legit products. By the way, none are AUDIO listings for wall outlets, though there is a section for products in the audio category in UL books. What a concept, and it doesn't pertain to how the stuff sounds either, like marketeers are trying to infer. What's in YOUR walls

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
UL LISTED, UL does not use the term "approved". Have you read any UL stickers lately, go to their web site and get an education on UL Listings, not approvals. Wurds mean something. Same holds for ETL and other testing labs. Look into UL literature how they have books upon books of UL standards on their LISTING requirements. They also us R?U for a RECOGNIZED component, not an APPROVED component. Wurds have meanings, that why there are so many of em. When ya get an electrical inspection, the stickers have the term approval...not listed, why is that anyway, must be, they mean different things. UL tests for compliance for a listed purpose. When a marketeer is calling their stuff UL Approved, just what did UL approve it for? Is that on the packaging, nooooo, but the UL listed uses are, for legit products. By the way, none are AUDIO listings for wall outlets, though there is a section for products in the audio category in UL books. What a concept, and it doesn't pertain to how the stuff sounds either, like marketeers are trying to infer. What's in YOUR walls

Give us a break Dup. It has to pass minimal UL tests before it can be listed. If they do not approve of a part, it is not listed.

I think we all understand this basic concept, so your criticism is unwarranted.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

You still don't understand it do you? Oh, are your products UL listed, since it only needs "minimal" requirements, why don't you look into it, you are in for a big surprise. They don't APPROVE it in order to be listed....you really don't understand what UL or ETL is all about....go for the tests, submit your products, WATCH, for how minimal it is!!! Hope you have a nice check too. And watch how it involves the entire operation of how you do it...hahahahahaha, go for it if it's minimal. No UL sticker ever said APPROVED.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
You still don't understand it do you? Oh, are your products UL listed, since it only needs "minimal" requirements, why don't you look into it, you are in for a big surprise. They don't APPROVE it in order to be listed....you really don't understand what UL or ETL is all about....go for the tests, submit your products, WATCH, for how minimal it is!!! Hope you have a nice check too. And watch how it involves the entire operation of how you do it...hahahahahaha, go for it if it's minimal. No UL sticker ever said APPROVED.

Yes, UL has requirements, minimum requirements that they set and go by, for each specific area. If a product does not pass their requirements, a UL listed tag is not allowed to be attached to that product. The product does not meet their requirements and approval.

Very simple dup.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

They don't Approve anything, you will once understand it. They LIST it for a specific purpose, read a UL sticker, even for audio stuff, nothing on it says APPROVAL, it says listed audio device or such....get in touch with them, as a mfg, see what they say about it...even the AC cord from legit makers of them, the cord has a tag UL LISTED, coax UL LISTED and the company UL number....If you look on Calif La requirements, like an old SoundCraftsmen EQ, it had teh orange yellow City of LA APPROVAL plainly worded on the sticker, DIFFERENT! Now go and learn all about it.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
They don't Approve anything, you will once understand it. They LIST it for a specific purpose, read a UL sticker, even for audio stuff, nothing on it says APPROVAL, it says listed audio device or such....get in touch with them, as a mfg, see what they say about it...even the AC cord from legit makers of them, the cord has a tag UL LISTED, coax UL LISTED and the company UL number....If you look on Calif La requirements, like an old SoundCraftsmen EQ, it had teh orange yellow City of LA APPROVAL plainly worded on the sticker, DIFFERENT! Now go and learn all about it.

So when UL allows a product to be lised, UL disapproves the product but allows it to be listed anyway? Nonsense. Nothing that UL allows to be listed is disapproved by UL for that purpose. If that were the case, UL would state the product failed their tests.

UL allows a product to be listed because it meets there requirements.

Now it is true that UL cannot keep a product from being marketed, so the company does not need UL's approval for marketing purposes.

But let's not minipulate words so you can attack PS Audio, ok.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Yes, UL has requirements, minimum requirements that they set and go by, for each specific area. If a product does not pass their requirements, a UL listed tag is not allowed to be attached to that product.


There is also a multi-thousand dollar fee that UL requires to even look at your product.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

You must under stand the wording of the terms LISTED for a purpose and approval...UL does not approve anything, they list a device for a specific use, after it passes the tests required to prove it's safety, and suitability for doing said function, approval in the use of a device is up to AHJ in a local area, as when a state of city entiry addopts the current NEC, the electrical inspector has the final APPROVAL of the installation. Using UL LISTED devices and products, is usually a requirement for approval, buy the local AHJ Authority having jurisdiction. Though many installs get approved without UL listed products. A stickler for teh code uses UL or ETL stuff. Eeven in audio installations, say a commeercial or houses of worship or places of assembly, where lotsa people will be, using UL listed stuff will cover your ass in teh event of a problem, leading to injury, which is why a good inspector would disallow non UL listed stuff, audio amplifers, speaker systems, lotsa JBL and commercial stuff all have UL stickers, lotsa smaller exotic stuff with small quantitys can't afford the tests and payments to UL for continued certification, it's an ongoing look into teh mfg, not just a one time deal...if they find you are doing it wrong after they Listed your product, it's pulled, off their list, and you ain't allow to use it, if you do, you are in deep do do, if they catch you using their mark without their OK. Lotsa pro audio is all UL listed, is your's? Look into it, it ain't cheap, it's beyond minimal requirments, for some commercial installed equipment. If a big club is gonna have hundreds of people in there, and a fire happens, teh insurance company insists stuff meets code, remember that fire in Rhode Island, when teh dopes started the place on fire, using some swag foam, which wasn't UL listed flame retardant stuff, Million$ of bucks, UL matters, for commercial installs. UL doesn't approve anything, they list stuff for a specific use. An read my motto....

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
they list a device for a specific use, after it passes the tests required to prove it's safety, and suitability

That is right, if UL listed UL must approve its safety.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

They don't APPROVE anything, one day you will understand. They test, they list, showing it as OK for it's listed use. What happens when they RU it, RECOGNIZE a component, now how can that be approval if Listing is approval according to you. Ever see components with RU on em, hmmmmmmm. Now go and learn something about it. I'm tired, you are thick.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
They test, they list, showing it as OK...


Which equals "approve".

Now move on.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

DUP

The basic fact is you are wrong.

UL approves numerous products, in my real life i deal with UL as well as DNV, BV, Lloyds, NPD, IEC, ABS, USCG, ATEX, BASEEFA, NEMKO, DEMKO, GOST, SOLAS, IMO, PFEER amongst others with regards to regulatory requirements for specific product approvals. You are correct in stating that any product can be sold without being UL listed or approved but you are just flat out wrong to state that a product that is UL listed has not been tested.

My company employees two full time compliance engineers whose only function is get UL approval on the products we sell, do you think we would spend over $2,000,000 a year just for the fun of it ?????

Get over it DUP, you are WRONG

Alan

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

You forgot the Dutch and Canadian agencies and DIN and Kema Kluer too. UL doesn't "approve" they test, they list. Get over it, wurds mean something. The term is UL LISTED, NOT UL approved. Maybe you need to spend more money and understand what you are spending money on doing. I never said if it's UL LISTED it hasn't been tested, that is teh UL function, no wonder you don't understand, you can't comphrehend. UL TESTS, they LIST, they assign a number, you pay big dollar$, and they continue watching your products for COMPLIANCE to a test standard, they don't approve anything.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

A writeup that is along the lines I am trying to tell you, but you don't want to comphrehend the concept!! READ. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-7.html

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Now in the case of CSA, they use the term Approved, cus' they are a different operation, with different functions in Canada, they have different influence , wurds mean something. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-8.html

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

www.fags.com

Seems appropriate for you somehow !!

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Whether or not we believe this entire thread is an exercise in semantics, DUP appears to be technically correct. Please see the following from UL's own web site:

http://www.ul.com/marks_labels/mark/mark3.html

Please note the chart in which "UL Approved" is cited as an incorrect reference.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Amen. Wurds mean something, UL doesn't approve anything, and for someone in business and dealing with UL, and spends money with them, and doesn't understand what UL is, is really scaaaaarey, do I have to educate everyone? This is getting to be a struggle, tiring. thanks for that page, I woulda' had to resort to that, but I waited, to see if anything sinks in to those "open minds" they clamor about, obviously, open does mean what I say, empty. Now I will accept apologys from the doubters. Now, I have an answer for worl hunger....move to a place where there is more food. That's an oldie.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Comphrehension a Q is not a G....no wonder you don't know what the letters UL infer. Now you are getting dopey.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

UL Listing means that UL has tested representative samples of your product and determined that they meet UL's requirements. These requirements are based primarily on UL's published and nationally recognized Standards for Safety

UL HAS TESTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

And? I've been saying it for the last 20 posts, UL lists, they test to a standard, are you out of you mind? Who ever siad they don't TEST, they are a test lab, you can't possibly be in business. Do you now understand that UL doesn't approve anything, that they LIST a device after they test to standards, if you look back on when this started, that's what I said, you really have to have a comphrehenion problem? Wurds mean something, unless you can't comphrehend, then they mean nothing, obviously.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
And? I've been saying it for the last 20 posts, UL lists, they test to a standard, are you out of you mind? Who ever siad they don't TEST, they are a test lab, you can't possibly be in business. Do you now understand that UL doesn't approve anything, that they LIST a device after they test to standards, if you look back on when this started, that's what I said, you really have to have a comphrehenion problem? Wurds mean something, unless you can't comphrehend, then they mean nothing, obviously.

This is from Dup's initial post.


Quote:
UL doesn't "approve" anything, they LIST for a specific use. another gaff by the marketeers of nonsense. They wanna say approved becasue that term is bandied about to teh unknowing.

The fact is, that receptacle can be used with ULs blessing in house wiring.

By the way, UL does not just test a part for certain uses, it tests for safety and has to meet certain requirements to receive its blessing, its approval.

One cannot accept something and disapprove of it.
So what do you have against PSAudio that you would stoop to such tatics.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Exactly.

Approve = "to accept as satisfactory" or "to have or express a favorable opinion of". The semantic argument is worthless.

And again, what has PS Audio and/or Paul McGowan ever done that even vaguely justifies this level of invective and truth-twisting?

There is absolutely nothing unsafe or illegal in installing a PS Audio outlet in your home. It's perfectly fine to think this is silly, but to state or imply that this is dangerous is pure hyperbolic libel.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Exactly.

Approve = "to accept as satisfactory" or "to have or express a favorable opinion of". The semantic argument is worthless.

And again, what has PS Audio and/or Paul McGowan ever done that even vaguely justifies this level of invective and truth-twisting?

There is absolutely nothing unsafe or illegal in installing a PS Audio outlet in your home. It's perfectly fine to think this is silly, but to state or imply that this is dangerous is pure hyperbolic libel.

Very well stated Elk.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Thanks, but you were the one that brought this thread back to reality (along with Alan's real world posts).

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Whether or not we believe this entire thread is an exercise in semantics, DUP appears to be technically correct.


Most of this thread is a silly diversion because DUP's real objection has nothing to do with UL and everything to do with the fact that replacement AC power outlets have no affect on sound quality. So forget the meaning of UL compliance and address the core value of the product itself. Which I'll venture is not $99 but rather 46 cents as for THIS perfectly competent Leviton outlet at Home Depot shown below.

--Ethan

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

I like to take those 99 Dollar recepticles and poke they little eyes out.

Anyways.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Most of this thread is a silly diversion because DUP's real objection has nothing to do with UL and everything to do with the fact that replacement AC power outlets have no affect on sound quality. So forget the meaning of UL compliance and address the core value of the product itself.

Almost every post in this thread addresses the UL listed/approved issue, including DUP's initial post. It is on this topic I wished to comment. Many, many things are overpriced in the audio market, including panels made of rockwool or fiberglass.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Many, many things are overpriced in the audio market, including panels made of rockwool or fiberglass.


I hope you're not implying my company's products are overpriced, or do not do what is claimed. This is the key issue from my perspective. Unlike "power" products that do not change the sound at all, ever, good acoustic treatment works as advertised. The improvements are easily quantified, measured, and heard. No magic, and no belief system required. Now, you are correct that prices for acoustic products vary from maybe $50 to over $1,000. I like to think my company's products are in the middle, way under the expensive stuff, even if more costly than cheap stuff that's not built very well.

--Ethan

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

I like hospital style/isolated ground type outlets as the grab so well. The concept of more metal to metal contact is appealing (although probably not true), but the holding force is great for the biggish cable that I use to connect my power distribution stuff.

While room treatment offers a better bang for the buck than power conditioning for improving the sound (at least if your room is normal sized and an affordable amount of treatment will do the job), I have trouble with dismissing power conditioning/treatment whole cloth. I can easily hear in my system whether I am powering the equipment through my Power Plant or not. Power conditioning can make a nice difference when doing on location recording also (most churches and other performance venues have ghastly, noisy power.) However the difference in a given application is probably a function of one's power to begin with.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
Which I'll venture is not $99 but rather 46 cents as for THIS perfectly competent Leviton outlet at Home Depot shown below.

Want to try obtaining all copper, gold plated for corrosion resistance, innards with the proper tension for your outlet? How about the quantity required if you can find a supplier/mill to make them, and of course setup charge required etc. What about a profit?

Yes, you really have a grasp of costs when it comes to producing a specialty product.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

"Unlike "power" products that do not change the sound at all, ever..."

That statement is truly laughable Ethan. Time and again I've seen obvious and instantly appreciable improvements with better wires, conditioners or a direct to breaker line installation. I'm not arguing if the super expensive stuff is worth it, but a $150 after market cord in a CD player or amp has obvious benefits whether it "fits in" with your world view or not.

To my skeptic friends I just say- OK borrow one and if it doesn't do anything no harm done. Each and every time they've gone out and bought a whole set. It's not magic and it's not subtle. Even my wife noticed more detail in a familiar recording and she didn't know I had upgraded the cords. In fact all she said was, "wow, is this the same recording? It sounds much more clear than usual." You can't get a much more blind test than that, and she really has little interest in sonics beyond basic enjoyment.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!
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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Dup

You are more full of bollocks than Tom Jones y fronts.

look it up !!!

Alan

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

sometimes it's hopeless. Find one product with a label on it that says UL "approved" ....get back to me....look hard. There is UL listed, UL recognized.. UL with C Never will there be a UL approved sticker tag or anything remotely leaning towards UL approved. They test to a set of standards, it then passes, it is then a LISTED device, assy. What you don't know is incredible. Maybe you have used too many non UL listed items, and you got fried once too often, cus you sure do appear to be brain dead. UL listed, like portable lamp...UL listed, commercial audio. Now go find a UL approved sticker in your uninformed world.

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

All the stickers you need.....look closely, cus' you know you're uninformed, WRONG and basically cluelss. But that's OK, since the guassian distribution would put you somewhere over at teh bottom of teh curve, way over at the other side of the normal intellignece of teh genral population, at least you ain't like most people, you are a lot dumber... http://www.ul.com/marks_labels/mark/index.html

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!
CECE
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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

See why commercial audio installations should be UL LISTED, insurance companaies would probably require it when ya have hundreds of people in the room. They test pretty thoroughly http://www.ul.com/av/transformer.html

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!

Wow.

This thread is suddenyl making the "

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Re: $99 wall outlets!!!


Quote:
And, how about those Emma Watson Fake Nudes!


Are they UL listed/rested/approved/consecrated?

DUP! See if you can run all those threads into the ground as well.

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