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Lamont Sanford
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2nd Amendment Excercise

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States....Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America" - (Gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8

Buddha
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

Saint Rush just updated it:

A well armed group of lone homicidal nuts, being necessary to the security of insane losers with grudges, the right of these people to keep, bear, and kill with their Arms, shall not be infringed. Especially in malls, nursing homes, schools, and other places populated by people who do not have the right to peaceful and safe assembly.

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States....Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America" - (Gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8

I would agree with you if the guns we could have were bazookas, flame throwers, mines, grenades, anti tank weapons, RPGs, military helicopters, tanks, howitzers, etc. As such, it's mighty difficult to lead a revolution with a six shooter and a sawed off shotgun.

JIMV
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
Saint Rush just updated it:

A well armed group of lone homicidal nuts, being necessary to the security of insane losers with grudges, the right of these people to keep, bear, and kill with their Arms, shall not be infringed. Especially in malls, nursing homes, schools, and other places populated by people who do not have the right to peaceful and safe assembly.

Most if not all of those areas have been designated as 'gun free' zones by the clueless amongst us, making them the shooting galleries of choice for life's nuts.

Until government can guarantee safety and be held accountable for NOT providing such security, folk will insist on being armed.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

As usual Buddha has his head in the sand and missed the point completely. He can't see the forest because of the trees. Though I find it a little silly to be training your eleven year old daughter to field strip what amounts to an M-16 I tried to bring that into context by the quote. That people, like myself, that has served in the military and continue to pursue the "martial arts" or people that have never served in the military for one reason or another and still exercise such right as "military spirit" are the last and "best barrier to the liberties of America." Even the Black Panthers understood this right when they took matters into their own hands and patrolled their own streets armed with firearms when they believed the police had failed their community. Nevertheless, had they stuck within the limits of what they believed they wouldn't have became such a radical element. It doesn't mean they were wrong in the beginning.

Like I've mentioned before. The gun lobby won't complain about sticking forks in the heads of babies and the pro-choice lobby will leave the firearm owners alone. It's an unwritten rule. But the forks kill hundreds more a day than firearms. Just thought I would throw that in just in case.

BTW, the little girl is going to be one damn good FBI agent one day. I also don't see a need for assault grade firearms on the shelf at the local gun shop. I haven't even held one since I was in the military. That would sacrilegious to me. If someone wants a weapon like that they should go through the same type of background check as anyone wanting to own a fully automatic weapon in their own state. Yes, I could fill out a couple of forms, shell out a couple of hundreds bucks to the government and within a few months I could be shooting a fully automatic "Tommy-Gun" at the local gun range. Most people don't know that about our government.

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

I don't quite understand why you seek permission to own guns from the same government against whose encroachment you're trying to guard your liberties? If you need to take up arms against the government, you don't need its permission or approval. If you don't want to take up arms against the government, then why do you need guns to guard your liberties against what or whom?

As far as safety issue is concerned life in the US is pretty safe. Let's not get paranoid.

Buddha
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
As usual Buddha has his head in the sand and missed the point completely. He can't see the forest because of the trees. Though I find it a little silly to be training your eleven year old daughter to field strip what amounts to an M-16 I tried to bring that into context by the quote. That people, like myself, that has served in the military and continue to pursue the "martial arts" or people that have never served in the military for one reason or another and still exercise such right as "military spirit" are the last and "best barrier to the liberties of America." Even the Black Panthers understood this right when they took matters into their own hands and patrolled their own streets armed with firearms when they believed the police had failed their community. Nevertheless, had they stuck within the limits of what they believed they wouldn't have became such a radical element. It doesn't mean they were wrong in the beginning.

Like I've mentioned before. The gun lobby won't complain about sticking forks in the heads of babies and the pro-choice lobby will leave the firearm owners alone. It's an unwritten rule. But the forks kill hundreds more a day than firearms. Just thought I would throw that in just in case.

BTW, the little girl is going to be one damn good FBI agent one day. I also don't see a need for assault grade firearms on the shelf at the local gun shop. I haven't even held one since I was in the military. That would sacrilegious to me. If someone wants a weapon like that they should go through the same type of background check as anyone wanting to own a fully automatic weapon in their own state. Yes, I could fill out a couple of forms, shell out a couple of hundreds bucks to the government and within a few months I could be shooting a fully automatic "Tommy-Gun" at the local gun range. Most people don't know that about our government.

Actually, I am a pro-gun liberal.

I just think we should cut the crap about "guns don't kill people, people kill people..."

My take is: Yeah, lots more people get killed by guns here, but our country made the decision that the percentage of Americans who get killed by guns is trumped by our right to 'keep and bear' them.

Guns are a societal decision we made, so quit with the bullshit otherwise.

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
If you need to take up arms against the government, you don't need its permission or approval. If you don't want to take up arms against the government, then why do you need guns to guard your liberties against what or whom?

As far as safety issue is concerned life in the US is pretty safe. Let's not get paranoid.

My issue isn't with taking up arms against the government but with personal safety. I think it's a pretty broad stroke to suggest that we're relatively safe without knowing the circumstances. I live in what is considered a pretty nice neighborhood in San Francisco. Most of the houses on our block with the exception of ours are in the Million $ plus range. Yet, in 2008, there were 5 daylight, armed robberies on our block. One was in front of our next door neighbors and one was right in front of our house. In the case of our house, I heard a woman scream and ran outside to see what the problem was. I found her lying on the ground, bleeding on the sidewalk. The three guys that robbed her knocked her down before they ran off. Had I seen what was happening through my window and been inclined to confront them with a gun, I would have been unable to do so as per San Francisco rules, all my firearms are locked up tight in a safe. The kids doing the holdups do so without hesitation as there is no possibility of armed resistance. In fact, a year ago, our board of supervisors passed a law banning the possession of firearms by San Francisco residents, even within their own homes. In the 80's, then mayor Diane Feinstein attempted to ban firearms in San Francisco but after the city spent several million dollars in court costs it was thrown out because the State of California reserves the right to regulate firearms to the state. This time the law was limited to San Francisco RESIDENTS in an attempt to get around that restriction. I emphasized residents because it still allowed 'bangers from Richmond, Oakland and East Palo Alto to legally possess firearms in the city, just not the people who actually live here. Fortunately, after spending a similar amount of money to what DiFi spent, this too was thrown out. I can appreciate that you think you're safe where you are but my wife and I aren't. Not paranoid, just fact. This June we're moving to North Carolina which is a right to carry state and it's my intent to take advantage of that fact as soon as possible after I get there. If it ends up that there's little chance that I'm going to get mugged in front of my own home and I don't actually need to carry, so much the better. But I'm glad that it's going to be my choice.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
I don't quite understand why you seek permission to own guns from the same government against whose encroachment you're trying to guard your liberties? If you need to take up arms against the government, you don't need its permission or approval. If you don't want to take up arms against the government, then why do you need guns to guard your liberties against what or whom?

As far as safety issue is concerned life in the US is pretty safe. Let's not get paranoid.

Your interpretation is off key. The last and best barrier to liberty doesn't even come close to taking up arms against the nation. Also, life in the US apparently is not safe with crazy people shooting up people by the dozens and people aborting babies in such a manner that is gruesome. Let's not get complacent. I think we all know that things are pretty fucked up.

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

Pfffttt... try living some place else. You're damn safe in the states. If you want to be safer, try moving to Europe, where guns are outlawed almost completely and where the murder rates are considerably lower.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

I'd rather be thrown out in the desert with no shoes. Or a horse with no name.

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

Most of my liberal friends not only support gun ownership they each have several handguns.

They keep trying to talk me into going to the shooting range.

I am a pro gun liberal as well but I know myself well enough not to own a gun.

I would end up shooting Lamont when he's being a smart ass.

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

The UK banned gun ownership in 1997...since then their rate of gun crime has gone UP 80% and their violent crime rate is over 100% higher....

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


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The UK banned gun ownership in 1997...since then their rate of gun crime has gone UP 80% and their violent crime rate is over 100% higher....

So, tell us how their rate compares to ours.

They lack the powerful deterrent of the death penalty, too!

They should be awash in gun crime!

Let's look at those rates and compare. That should settle your argument, eh?

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:

So, tell us how their rate compares to ours.

They lack the powerful deterrent of the death penalty, too!

They should be awash in gun crime!

Let's look at those rates and compare. That should settle your argument, eh?

"The failure of this general disarmament to stem, or even slow, armed and violent crime could not be more blatant. According to a recent UN study, England and Wales have the highest crime rate and worst record for "very serious" offences of the 18 industrial countries surveyed. "

Here's the full article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

As a side note that's not mentioned in the article, the author mentions that our homicide rates have dropped drastically while their's have risen but she indicates that our rate is still higher. She attributes that to cultural differences but the real reason is that in response to the soaring rate Scotland Yard changed the way homicides are classified. In order for a homicide to be counted, not only does someone need to be charged with the crime, they also need to be convicted. In other words, in Britain you might be dead as a doorknob at the hand of your next door neighbor but until he's in jail you don't get counted. Maybe San Francisco should switch to that system. The cities homicide rate would drop by more than 60%. Problem solved.

JIMV
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:

Quote:
The UK banned gun ownership in 1997...since then their rate of gun crime has gone UP 80% and their violent crime rate is over 100% higher....

So, tell us how their rate compares to ours.

They lack the powerful deterrent of the death penalty, too!

They should be awash in gun crime!

Let's look at those rates and compare. That should settle your argument, eh?

Do you really want to know? Our rate of violent crime has dropped steadily for over two decades, as more and more states allow concealed carry and tens of million more guns are in society. At the same time the UK has seen a doubling of violent crime and almost a doubling of gun crime after guns were banned.

Think about the difference in approach...ban guns...violent crime rises, allow responsible gun ownership and crime drops...

Violent crime in 2007 in London is several time higher than NYC. One is six times more likely to be mugged.

Low violent crime in Europe is a fiction that has not been true for a very long time...

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

The basic crux of the issue is this: You really don't need a gun. When you really, really think about it, and honestly ask yourself, do you really NEED a gun? The answer is no. Brazil has easy access to guns and some of the worst violent crime rate in the world. You don't need a gun. You're safe. Everything is fine.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


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The basic crux of the issue is this: You really don't need a gun. When you really, really think about it, and honestly ask yourself, do you really NEED a gun? The answer is no. Brazil has easy access to guns and some of the worst violent crime rate in the world. You don't need a gun. You're safe. Everything is fine.

Do you really really really need a stereo? Knock off the subjective bullshit. You're like Kevin Baccon's character on animal house. No, not "thank you sir, may I have another?"

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

No, I really do not need a stereo. However, a stereo does not have a potential of putting a bullet through my or anyone else's head. It would also be much harder for me to go on a rampage with my stereo should I come home in a pissy mood. So, the safety factor is much higher with a stereo.

daverich4
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
The basic crux of the issue is this: You really don't need a gun. When you really, really think about it, and honestly ask yourself, do you really NEED a gun? The answer is no. Brazil has easy access to guns and some of the worst violent crime rate in the world. You don't need a gun. You're safe. Everything is fine.

San Francisco is approximately 7 miles across in each direction. I live in the Ingleside Police District which is one of SEVEN Police Districts in our little 49 square mile city. Here is yesterday's crime report for JUST the Ingleside District:

Serious Incidents

6:30 am 1800 block of Sunnydale Ave. Battery

Officer Reyes investigated a Domestic Violence incident and arrested a 22 year old Sunnydale District man for felony battery. Case 090384513

10:35 am Stoneridge Lane Attempted Burglary

Resident heard a loud noise and found the window to his back door shattered. He saw the burglar fleeing - an Asian male in his late teens, 5'9" tall, 150 pounds, wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and shorts.

12:30 pm City College Possession of narcotics

CCSF PD Officer Sanchez and Officer Green found three people smoking marijuana on campus in a wooded area south of Judson Avenue. They searched two of the three and arrested a 25 year old OMI District woman for possessing methamphetamine and an 18 year old Sunset District man for possessing psilocybin (hallucinogenic mushrooms). Case 090385771

4:15 pm 400 block of Harvard St. Burglary

A witness saw two teens attempting to break into a home and called 911. Officer Ng and Officer Brown searched the home. They found damage to the house's front gate and door. No loss was reported.

5:45 pm First block of Canyon Dr. Burglary

Occurred between 8:20 am and 5:45 pm. Unlawful entry via unlocked rear door. Cash and jewelry taken.

10:05 pm First block of Blythdale Ave. Homicide

Residents reported hearing shots fired and officers searched the neighborhood. They found a dead body with gunshot wounds near a playground behind 32 Blythdale Avenue. Lieutenant Spillane, Homicide Detail, took over the case. This is Ingleside Police District's third homicide of 2009.

Other Incidents

Four motorists were cited for license violations and had their vehicles impounded.

Alemany Blvd. & Seneca Ave. '00 Saturn recovered

500 block of Alemany Blvd. Vandalism to building: windows broken with BB shots

300 block of Athens St. Threats: suspect known

First block of Blythdale Ave. Auto burglary

City College - Wellness Center Trespassing: suspect known

400 block of Cortland Ave. Officers found a 37 year old Bernal Heights man with wounds to his face. He did not know what had happened to him after he left a nearby bar. He was taken to SFGH.

900 block of Ellsworth St. Threats: suspect known

Crescent Ave. & Gates St. Traffic collision: hit and run (no injuries)

2000 block of Geneva Ave. Mental health intervention

1400 block of Guerrero St. Sergeant O'Brien sought a restraining order at the behest of an Adult Protective Service worker.

Mission St. & Persia Ave. A MUNI bus came to a stop and a passenger claimed that she was injured.

4700 block of Mission St. Battery: suspect unknown

First block of Montcalm St. Threats: suspect known

Myra Way & La Bica St. Vandalism to parked cars: two cars had their hoods damaged and another car had its mirror damaged

Powers & Mission Streets Vandalism to parked cars: witness saw a vandal breaking the windows of parked cars

300 block of Richland Ave. Mental health intervention

San Jose & Mt. Vernon Avenues '91 Chevrolet Astro van stolen

1200 block of Sunnydale Ave. Child custody dispute

1600 block of Sunnydale Ave. A Sunnydale District teenager was arrested for possessing an airgun. He was remanded to the care of a Juvenile Probation Officer. Case 090386898

2000 block of Sunnydale Ave. Vandalism to building: broken window

Denis F. O'Leary
Captain - Ingleside Station
San Francisco Police Department
1 Sergeant John Young Lane, S.F., CA 94112

"You're safe. Everything is fine."

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
No, I really do not need a stereo. However, a stereo does not have a potential of putting a bullet through my or anyone else's head. It would also be much harder for me to go on a rampage with my stereo should I come home in a pissy mood. So, the safety factor is much higher with a stereo.

How about a BB gun? "You'll shoot your eye out!". So, you feel if you have a firearm you might shoot somebody? That's interesting.

JIMV
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
No, I really do not need a stereo. However, a stereo does not have a potential of putting a bullet through my or anyone else's head. It would also be much harder for me to go on a rampage with my stereo should I come home in a pissy mood. So, the safety factor is much higher with a stereo.

Oh come on...we have all heard 'music' that is painful to the ears and some that is destructive of the soul...

Rap comes to mind..

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:

How about a BB gun? "You'll shoot your eye out!". So, you feel if you have a firearm you might shoot somebody? That's interesting.

I would personally feel much safer knowing that you can't own a gun. Not even a BB gun. I don't want you owning anything that could even potentially used as a weapon. I don't want you near a kitchen knife, a car, a chainsaw or any sharp instrument.

I feel much more comfortable knowing that you're sitting at your computer typing away on whatever issue that strokes your fancy at the moment.

Buddha
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:

Quote:
No, I really do not need a stereo. However, a stereo does not have a potential of putting a bullet through my or anyone else's head. It would also be much harder for me to go on a rampage with my stereo should I come home in a pissy mood. So, the safety factor is much higher with a stereo.

Oh come on...we have all heard 'music' that is painful to the ears and some that is destructive of the soul...

Rap comes to mind..

But, dude!

Rappers love guns as much as you do!

Rappers are an integral part of gun imagery in America. Rap is where alot of future gun enthusiasts get their first exposure!

Rappers are to guns as porno is to sex - it's many people's first exposure to these important subjects!

Instead of BS'ing about whatever gun lovers BS about, rappers get right to the point: "You mess wid me, I put a cap in yo ass."

The NRA is even thinking of adopting that as a slogan!

To paraphrase another slogan: It's not jet noise that's the sound of freedom, it's gunfire.

We gotta get you a big JIMV pendant and a Soldier of Fortune baseball hat you can wear sideays.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

Soldier of Fortune magazine still around?

Buddha
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

Soldier of Fortune had its name changed to the Blackwater Newsletter, but they've now changed the name to Xe.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

I thought you were kidding...

Well if we can have Soldier of Fortune magazine than Al Sharpton has a right to describe the Somalian pirates as an "all volunteer coast guard".

https://www.nsfsmagazine.com/secure/sofstore/products.html

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:
I thought you were kidding...

Well if we can have Soldier of Fortune magazine than Al Sharpton has a right to describe the Somalian pirates as an "all volunteer coast guard".

https://www.nsfsmagazine.com/secure/sofstore/products.html

They're an all volunteer coast guard/tax authority.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

According to Al. Isn't he your representative or something?

bifcake
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

No, I'm out of the country, remember?

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


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s June we're moving to North Carolina which is a right to carry state

Cool deal, where abouts? Sometimes I go straight from the range to the grocery store with my weapon still holstered, never have gotten a second look, noone really cares.. Guns are as much a part of the scenery as pickup trucks or UNC Tarheel paraphernalia

JIMV
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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise

I went to high school in Hendersonville outside Asheville years ago.

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Re: 2nd Amendment Excercise


Quote:

Quote:
s June we're moving to North Carolina which is a right to carry state

Cool deal, where abouts?

Denver, just north of Charlotte. In January we bought a waterfront home on Lake Norman. We're having some work done on it and then it looks like we're headed that way in early June. We're really looking forward to it.

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