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daverich4
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#1 Vinyl Evangelist

Imagine my surprise when I opened the latest AARP magazine to find an article on the virtues of vinyl playback. It included several references to "vinyl guru Michael Fremer" and quotes from him. Whether you're into vinyl or not, ya gotta give Mikey props for passing his passion for vinyl playback on to as many people as he can. I thought it was a pretty well written article, really highlighting all of the positive aspects of the medium. One part cracked me up though. Mikey suggested several places to purchase turntables and the article specifically mentioned the Pro-Ject Debut III @ $349 but quickly hastened to add that cheaper ones were available. Continuum Caliburn anyone? At any rate, nice job Michael.

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/vinyl-records-back.html

Michael Fremer
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

Thank you. I try. But I can't bring myself to join AARP.

Buddha
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

I'm on the 'work 'til I die plan,' so the "R" part of AARP seems too fantastic to believe.

KBK
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

You don't wanna join HAARP, either, methinks.

Buddha
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

I heard they tried to interview Art Dudley, as well, but he'd only talk about 78's, which skews too old for the AARP demographic.

j_j
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
I heard they tried to interview Art Dudley, as well, but he'd only talk about 78's, which skews too old for the AARP demographic.

Clicking and popping
And rumbling hissing
Mistracking, skipping
And high frequencies missing

Worn out old vinyl
All covered in dust
This is the thing over which it is fussed!

absolutepitch
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

If I'm not mistaken, the article mentions the euphonic effects in vinyl over the more precise CD sound.

geoffkait
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

"If I'm not mistaken, the article mentions the euphonic effects in vinyl over the more precise CD sound."

Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD? Then, yeah, I know that precise CD sound...

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

It is not fun.

CD is pretty good today. Add a changer, add a CD recorder and it gets even better. This is what Stereophile should have been pushing instead of SACD then vinyl, after SACD failed.

After the failure of SACD you could not go back and said CD was actually pretty good. So now you are pushing vinyl to the newbies as the old guard dropped Vinyl years ago. It stinks! MF is a clown.

absolutepitch
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
"If I'm not mistaken, the article mentions the euphonic effects in vinyl over the more precise CD sound."

Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD? Then, yeah, I know that precise CD sound...

The article was by Bill Newcott, who was quoting Jason Boyd "... who oversees vinyl-record production and sales for music giant EMI,...". The article is at the link:

AARP article on vinyl

You can read what they wrote. About CD - the words were "...most pristine...". For vinyl it was "... warm, full sound...".

geoffkait
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

"The article was by Bill Newcott, who was quoting Jason Boyd "... who oversees vinyl-record production and sales for music giant EMI,...". The article is at the link:

AARP article on vinyl

You can read what they wrote. About CD - the words were "...most pristine...". For vinyl it was "... warm, full sound...". "

"Warm, full sound" certainly makes more sense than "euphonic effects" coming from the person who oversees vinyl record production at music giant EMI.

"Pristine" is an interesting word. Quite reminiscent of the word "threadbare."

Jim Tavegia
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

I am still trying to figure out how SACD is the failure? Is it not a great format, or is it that the masses are "defective" and too lazy to appreciate super-great sound? Why does everything in life have to relegated to "fast food"? People spend more on a stupid cell phone than a CD player. Then, they will do it every year when the next latests and greatest phone comes out. I guess I am just too hold to really get it?

MF comments about being an audiophile as it relates to fine dining, great wine, expensive watches, and cars is so true. The masses will spend $1K or more on a HDTV with what is mostly a vast wasteland to watch, yet never consider spending $1K on a turntable or CD player to really enjoy great music played well.

To me the format is not THE failure. It is the masses inability to appreicate the finer things in life.

I just witnesses another new science teacher at our school with gas prices at $2.50 a gallon trade her Lincoln for a 15 MPG GMC Denali and she is so proud of herself. Forest Gump is right...stupid is as stupid does, Sir!

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

Most music is not available on SACD. From this standpoint it is a failure indeed compared to CD. Comparaison to cheese, wine, black suede shoes (only brown suede shoes is appropriate, black is for cons) and watches is inappropriate unless you want to use a SACD player as a paperweight.

At the same time CD got pretty good -and fun- in my opinion, contrary to vinyl. I am tired of reading about vinyl in Stereophile. Stereophile pooh pooh the CD but it is the format you wanted to have ten years ago and still want to have today if you want to be able to listen to a wide range of music.

It reminds me of those "videophiles" on an other forum who spend $200,000 to build a home cinema (not including the hardware) just to watch crap, blockbusters. Most of them rent their movies.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

I would not discount the cd as the problem with most of them are engineering related with over compression and limiting. JA has proven to me that the Cd format can produce excellent results. I have a new JAR cd that is just one of greatest sounding cds I have recently purchased.

Yes, Sony is to blame for not supporting their own format, but it became clear that only the small audiophile community was going to support it. It died because most did not care and, like DVD-A, required a dedicated player to join the game.

Outside of the initial problems I am experiencing recording at 2496 with Sony Sound Forge, I can tell you that the 2496 wav files I have burned on regular dvd+Rs with Audio DVD Creator($40) and playable on any 2496 capable dvd player will be worth the effort. Hi rez playable in millions of dvd players already in place...if anyone cares about the improved quality.

SACD is not a bad format, it was just totally marketed wrong, as was DVD-A, from the get go. Any format that will require a dedicated player will most likely die. Sony was foolish again for not including it in their latest PS3 console. Someone there needs to be fired in the marketing department.

I would hope that this stardard dvd format with hi-rez audio might take hold as I believe it could hold great promise even as just a 2-channel medium. More than just audiophiles will have to care, and that I am not counting on. Just market a new $1K cell phone that can store more MP3s and Twitter more people faster.

j_j
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD?

So, your CD player is broken, then? Perhaps you have too much sticky tape and little dots stuck in the gears?

geoffkait
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Re: #1 Vinyl Sandanista

ME "Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD?"

YOU "So, your CD player is broken, then? Perhaps you have too much sticky tape and little dots stuck in the gears?"
_________________________

Remember, as long as *you* like the sound that's really all that matters.

KBK
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
Most music is not available on SACD. From this standpoint it is a failure indeed compared to CD. Comparaison to cheese, wine, black suede shoes (only brown suede shoes is appropriate, black is for cons) and watches is inappropriate unless you want to use a SACD player as a paperweight.

At the same time CD got pretty good -and fun- in my opinion, contrary to vinyl. I am tired of reading about vinyl in Stereophile. Stereophile pooh pooh the CD but it is the format you wanted to have ten years ago and still want to have today if you want to be able to listen to a wide range of music.

It reminds me of those "videophiles" on an other forum who spend $200,000 to build a home cinema (not including the hardware) just to watch crap, blockbusters. Most of them rent their movies.

Cd may have many different types of music available on that format but it would be, with respect to attempting to call it 'quality' in sonic terms... like attempting to duct tape beauty onto ugly people. You are going to see through the attempt. As for CD...it ain't gonna work and the flaws are obvious, to the learned and sensitive ear.

You gave up on Vinyl and you are calling MF a clown? I'm surprised, Grosse. For all your bluff and seeming insensitivity you are usually more polite than that. Or if not, you usually try to sidestep direct comments like that through some bits of typical French innuendo. How does MF get to be a clown for supporting our only available and working high rez-format?

Be careful. Insensitive egotistical existence does not equate to universal solutions. Rather the opposite.

Grosse Fatigue
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

What does he carry at audio shows around his neck: CDs, not Vinyls.. Why? Because actually CD doesn't sound that bad I guess to try new hardware.

What does JA listen to mostly: CDs.
What did Gordon Holt listen to: CDs.
What does Martin Colloms listen to mostly: CDs
What does Tom Norton listen to mostly: CDs
What did Larry Archibald listen to mostly: CDs

It really stinks! I don't like hypocrites.

mjalazard
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

OK folks, we're beating a dead horse once again. Arguments aside, sit down, relax, and listen to your favorite music on your favorite player. Have a glass of ____________________ and/or a smoke of __________________ (cough).
Now, don't you feel better now.
I'm happy that both formats are available and cheap. I'm happy that digital MP3 players and "downloadable" music is readily available. It sure beats the hell out of the transistor radios many of us used back in the day.

Gross,
Don't 'diss' the critics for carrying around CD's to the shows. You know the logistics. Most rooms us a digital format. Those exhibitors who play records usually bring a good selection. Then, of course, there are those NFS Audio Guys (my shameless plug) who can load the van and bring boxes of vinyl and CD's to the party [THE Show Jan 7-10 Las Vegas NV]


Mike

geoffkait
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

And people wonder why it's sometimes called the Geek Meet in the Desert....

just kidding...

RGibran
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

Is that some kind of lemon/lime tweak in those bottles?

wgriel
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
Is that some kind of lemon/lime tweak in those bottles?

Heh, I was wondering that myself: is that stuff there to tweak the system or intoxicate the listeners (or both)?

Buddha
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist

Proprietary extract of a certain percentage alcohol, water, sucrose, and lemon zest. We actually call it System Enhancing Solution.

j_j
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Re: #1 Vinyl Sandanista


Quote:
ME "Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD?"

YOU "So, your CD player is broken, then? Perhaps you have too much sticky tape and little dots stuck in the gears?"
_________________________

Remember, as long as *you* like the sound that's really all that matters.

Well, if your CD player is broken, perhaps you should have it fixed, and then you might like it again.

Or did you try one of those first-generation diskman things with a too-small coupling capacitor, and forget to disconnect the 8 ohm load you attached?

geoffkait
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Re: #1 Vinyl Sandanista

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ME "Oh, you mean the thin, threadbare, bass shy, treble challenged, tinny, hollow, uninvolving paper mache sound of the venerable CD?"
YOU "So, your CD player is broken, then? Perhaps you have too much sticky tape and little dots stuck in the gears?"
_________________________
Remember, as long as *you* like the sound that's really all that matters.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Well, if your CD player is broken, perhaps you should have it fixed, and then you might like it again.

Or did you try one of those first-generation diskman things with a too-small coupling capacitor, and forget to disconnect the 8 ohm load you attached?"

> Got any newer material?

wgriel
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Re: #1 Vinyl Evangelist


Quote:
Proprietary extract of a certain percentage alcohol, water, sucrose, and lemon zest. We actually call it System Enhancing Solution.

I like it!

Usually my SES is a bit less colorful (and comes from Scotland) but I like the ingenuity at work here.

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