soulful.terrain
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War on coal hits your electric bill
JIMV
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This is what happens when bad legislation leads to perpetual; regulation...What is a regulator to do, a fellow whose entire job invoilves writing and enforcing regulations, when the regulator has already written every possible sane regulation regarding a real problem?

The answer...he moves from needed regulation to nice to do regulation to actual regulation that is bad for both the economy and the problem being regulated. Regulation that produces results worse then the problem being regulated...Then we get to simply silly regulation and annoying regulation .

I would recomment all regulation have a sunset clause and all regulation writing end at a set period, say 10 years, after a law is passed requiring the regulations.

 

 

soulful.terrain
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JIMV wrote:

This is what happens when bad legislation leads to perpetual; regulation...What is a regulator to do, a fellow whose entire job invoilves writing and enforcing regulations, when the regulator has already written every possible sane regulation regarding a real problem?

The answer...he moves from needed regulation to nice to do regulation to actual regulation that is bad for both the economy and the problem being regulated. Regulation that produces results worse then the problem being regulated...Then we get to simply silly regulation and annoying regulation .

I would recomment all regulation have a sunset clause and all regulation writing end at a set period, say 10 years, after a law is passed requiring the regulations.

 

 

Jim, a sunset clause is a great idea for regulatory legislation. I couldn't agree more. Especially since we have these 'czars' that are being appointed left and right by Obama and prior Presidents. These un-elected czars; in most cases, have more power than our elected House and Senate Representatives,

Here are the GAO stats on Obama vs.Bush when it comes to Regulations and the cost only after the first three years into both their respective presidencies.

 

 

Here is a breakdown of Obama's 'green' initiatives that will cause energy costs to, as he says,"necessarily skyrocket" for the American people.

 

 

Agency/Subagency

Title             

Primary
Annual Cost
Estimate

EPA/AR

Reconsideration of the 2008 Ozone National Ambient Air Quality Standards

$19-90 Billion

EPA/AR

National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants for Coal- and Oil-Fired Electric Utility Steam Generating Units

$10 Billion

EPA/AR

National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants for Major Source Industrial, Commercial & Institutional Boilers and Process Heaters

$3 Billion

EPA/SWER

Standards for the Management of Coal Combustion Residuals Generated by Commercial Electric Power Producers

$0.6-1.5 Billion

DOT/NHTSA

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 111, Rearview Mirrors

$2 Billion

DOT/FMCSA

Electronic On-Board Recorders and Hours of Service Supporting Documents

$2 Billion

DOT/FMCSA

Hours of Service

$1 Billion

Obama has already let everyone know just exactly how he feels about private businesses. At an organized labor rally in '08, Obama stated that 'big business' is the enemy. This never got reported by the lamestream media in 08'.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. If Obama and the Democrats have their way, Cap and Trade will be a reality in his second term in office furthering astronomical energy usage fees for American citizens.

This guy hates the private sector and free-enterprise. This is why Obama is a total failure in my humble opinion. The Constitution and Marxism cannot be applied in a Representative Republic and be successful simultaneously. But, Obama continues his 'fundamental transformation' as promised.

Look at this objectively, If a person loves his country, why would that person say that he wants to fundamentally transform it? To fundamentally transform something, don't you have to destroy the prior?

More importantly, where does the Constitution give any President that power?

Interestingly, did you know that 77% of all the 'green ventures' Obama has thrown taxpayer money at that failed, like Solydra and Lightsquared, all were Obama campaign bundlers in 08' plus..these company CEO's got hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars after they filed for bankruptsy. And just think.. Nixon got impeached over a few minutes of recorded tape.

Mark

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Greenhouse gas emissions in the US are now below the levels set by the Kyoto accords. Of course, this is a good thing only to those of us who enjoy breathing.

Lamont Sanford
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We all gotta die some time, BluesBob.  Now, get back to your foxhole.

soulful.terrain
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Bluesbob wrote:

Greenhouse gas emissions in the US are now below the levels set by the Kyoto accords. Of course, this is a good thing only to those of us who enjoy breathing.

Bob,

What governmental bureaucracy of pseudo-scientists recieving federal grant monies is confirming this??

There is no definitive way to measure 'greehouse gases.' The IPCC has already been caught falsifying measurements with their computer models. This was proven by the leaked U.K. e-mails. The IPCC and the U.N. Panel on Global Warming have been falsifying documents for the last ten years, That's why Al Gore has been missing in action over the last 4 years and not been peddling his 'carbon credit' ponzi scheme.

News flash! Obama's EPA director, Lisa P. Jackson, has deemed carbon dioxide as a dangerous greenhouuse gas and the levels of C02 need to be addressed according to her EPA. So I guess for those that enjoy breathing like you and I Bob, we must now quit exhaling as not to destroy the planet.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703558004574582190625776518.html

 

Plants need Co2 to grow. do they not?

Of course, those evil, diabolical Republicans hate breathing clean air and they want dirty water too, at least that is what the holy, highly ethical Democrats and their media machine tell us.

Bob. last time I checked, those evil, diabolical Republicans have to breathe the same air and drink the same water as Democrats... do they not?

So according to the media and the Obama whitehouse, Republicans want to drink dirty water and breathe dirty air. A little common sense would be useful here.

 

People seem to have forgotten this statement below from Obama: 

 So the Community Organizer-in-Chief  funnels over 10 billion tax dollars to 'green technologies' like Solyndra, Lightsquared, ENER1, etc; etc;'' ALL which have failed miserably and there has been NO accountability on his part thanks to the leftists in the media.

.....of course there is no war on coal...right??

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Out of 36 major recipients of green energy federal funding, 3 have failed. The problem is that it takes a long time to see any results from alternative energy sources. Be patient.

soulful.terrain
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Bluesbob wrote:

Out of 36 major recipients of green energy federal funding, 3 have failed. The problem is that it takes a long time to see any results from alternative energy sources. Be patient.

Only 3 Bob?? I believe your numbers a little skewed.

Evergreen Energy-Which has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, saying it’s “impossible to maintain operations” due to funding shortfalls. This announcement comes after the company received $5.3 million in “stimulus” funds.

 

Amonix Inc.-A manufacturer of solar panels that received $5.9 million from the “stimulus”, will lay off about 200 employees only seven months after opening a factory in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s home State of Nevada.

 

Beacon Power Corp-Sought bankruptcy protection last year after they received a $43 million loan guarantee from the Department of Energy.

 

Ener1 Electric-A car battery manufacturer, filed for bankruptcy last Thursday, three years after receiving a $118.5 million grant from the U.S. government.

 

These are all in addition to Solyndra-A solar panel maker that received a $535 million loan guarantee, then famously filed for Chapter 11 protection.

 

The Abound green energy company, according to one of the thousands of taxpayer-funded campaign speeches by Barack Hussein Obama, was supposed to  “create whole new industries and hundreds of thousands of new jobs in America.” However, fourteen months later the company is bleeding financially, laying off hundreds of workers, shutting down production to retool, and complaining that it is all China’s fault. This scenario also fits the [Solyndra] pattern of Abound laying off it’s main production force due to being insolvent, yet staying in business to “retool.”

 

Solar Trust Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012 – On April 2, 2012

 

Bright Source - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Lost Billions of dollars but Getting More Money To Keep Trying. Can you say, “This isnt working?

 

LSP Energy- LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

 

Energy Conversion Devices – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy

 

SunPower - SunPower stopped producing solar cells last year at near bankruptcy restructured only with help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL who owns 60% stake. Irony! Still struggling…

 

Ecotality- ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from Obama

 

A123 Solar- A123 received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’sDepartment of Energy loan guarantees and after Solyndra bankruptcy is getting another $500M from Obama and it has lost $400M

 

UniSolar- Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20 this year laid off hundreds got more Obama money still failing but still in business

 

Azure Dynamics -  Azure Dynamics files for bankruptcy in June wasting millions in Obama “Stimulus” and tax credits.  Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US.  Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.

 

Evergreen Solar - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama filed bankruptcy.

 

To add insult to injury, these companies were huge campaign bundlers for Obama in 2008. Plus, many of these companies were STILL was receiving subsidies AFTER they filed for bankruptsy to boot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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only Chapter 7 bankruptcy results in a "failure". Chapter 11 and Chapter 13 bankruptcies result in reorganization and debt payment plans, respectively, while they stay in business.

Lots of non-"green" businesses which receive government direct payments, loans, loan guarantees and tax credits fail.

If Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York want cheaper electricity they shouldn't be considering bans on hydraulic fracturing for natural gas. If we all want cheaper electricity we should get behind the CASEnergy Coalition and quit whining.

Thank your deity of choice or just plain dumb luck that Obama didn't give money to the banks or auto industry as they would have failed too. LOL

soulful.terrain
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jackfish wrote:

only Chapter 7 bankruptcy results in a "failure". Chapter 11 and Chapter 13 bankruptcies result in reorganization and debt payment plans, respectively, while they stay in business.

Lots of non-"green" businesses which receive government direct payments, loans, loan guarantees and tax credits fail.

If Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York want cheaper electricity they shouldn't be considering bans on hydraulic fracturing for natural gas. If we all want cheaper electricity we should get behind the CASEnergy Coalition and quit whining.

Thank your deity of choice or just plain dumb luck that Obama didn't give money to the banks or auto industry as they would have failed too. LOL

lol!

Yeah, I love it when Obama supporters say that he 'saved' the auto industry. GM is not exactly the sum total of the auto industry here in America, The liberals seem to forget about Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, etc; etc; all have factories here. Obama bailed out the Unions who now have 17.5% controlling interest, it had nothing to with GM as a company.

 

Yep. the EPA under Obama and it's EPA Director; Lisa P. Jackson has exploded with regulations, such as their utter contempt for hydraulic fracturing.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/the_epas_unconscionable_war_on_fracking.html

Of course it doesn't help any that Ohio, Pennsyvania, and New York are mostly ran by Democrats that will be a rubber stamp for the Obama administrations anti-fracking stance.

 

Of course this goes back to the original argument when Obama said that if we passed the trillion dollar stimulus package, 'shovel-ready' jobs ie; 'green jobs' would be the immediate result.Only to have Obama admit later that, "shovel-ready wasn't exactly as shovel ready as we had expected."

 

Seriously, what kind of President says 'No' to a pipeline from Canada that would create thousands of jobs, and lower prices at the pump?

Lamont Sanford
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The President could have used your bullshit during the last debate debacle.  It's so stupid it might of just worked.

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Didn't know Obama said no to the northern pipeline. Yeah, who would want a steady stream of oil unhampered by ongoing middle east issues and offshore environmental disasters. Here in Canada there has also been much debate over the pipeline. Alberta, where the oil will flow from needs to build the pipeline through British Columbia ( BC ) then down to the US. BC's premier Christi Clark says monthly transfer payments would need to be agreed upon and made before the pipeline constuction can begin, and until that matter is resolved no further debate will be possible. Alberta's Premier Alison Redford, ( yes both females ) says BC as been piping petrolium products through Alberta to eastern Canada for years without any compensation, so there is not a hope in hell that a single transfer payment will be made. Both are being logger headed and likely won't change there minds. Till there's a new povincial government in one of the provinces the issue will likely be on hold. The Oil Patch does have the power to unseat governments.

As most of us no the pipeline will one day be a reality, but why do it now when you can wait till the cost of building it triples.

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tmsorosk wrote:

Didn't know Obama said no to the northern pipeline. Yeah, who would want a steady stream of oil unhampered by ongoing middle east issues and offshore environmental disasters. Here in Canada there has also been much debate over the pipeline. Alberta, where the oil will flow from needs to build the pipeline through British Columbia ( BC ) then down to the US. BC's premier Christi Clark says monthly transfer payments would need to be agreed upon and made before the pipeline constuction can begin, and until that matter is resolved no further debate will be possible. Alberta's Premier Alison Redford, ( yes both females ) says BC as been piping petrolium products through Alberta to eastern Canada for years without any compensation, so there is not a hope in hell that a single transfer payment will be made. Both are being logger headed and likely won't change there minds. Till there's a new povincial government in one of the provinces the issue will likely be on hold. The Oil Patch does have the power to unseat governments.

As most of us no the pipeline will one day be a reality, but why do it now when you can wait till the cost of building it triples.

 

Oh yes! The major parts of the Keystone pipeline was rejected by Obama and his EPA Chief, Lisa P. Jackson.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/ken-blackwell/epas-transparent-avoidance-transparency-regarding-keystone-pipeline-politics

 http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/03/19/obamas-upcoming-visit-to-keystone-pipeline-site-so-hypocritical-and-so-ironic/

 

The environmentalism lobby has given millions to Obama, he's just returning the favor and the American public suffers, you know, like the U.S.S.R. suffered under Gorbechev and his whacko global environmental ideals.

From the Canada Free Press:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/kohlmayer051107.htm

 

Prior to Gorbachev and during his tenure, straining private sector energy efforts in favor of heavy centralized regulations worked well in communist Russia, so good that the Russian economy collapsed.

Thanks for giving me that info Tim. Very interesting stuff I didn't know. ;-)

Mark

Lamont Sanford
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tmsorosk wrote:

Didn't know Obama said no to the northern pipeline. Yeah, who would want a steady stream of oil unhampered by ongoing middle east issues and offshore environmental disasters. Here in Canada there has also been much debate over the pipeline. Alberta, where the oil will flow from needs to build the pipeline through British Columbia ( BC ) then down to the US. BC's premier Christi Clark says monthly transfer payments would need to be agreed upon and made before the pipeline constuction can begin, and until that matter is resolved no further debate will be possible. Alberta's Premier Alison Redford, ( yes both females ) says BC as been piping petrolium products through Alberta to eastern Canada for years without any compensation, so there is not a hope in hell that a single transfer payment will be made. Both are being logger headed and likely won't change there minds. Till there's a new povincial government in one of the provinces the issue will likely be on hold. The Oil Patch does have the power to unseat governments.

As most of us no the pipeline will one day be a reality, but why do it now when you can wait till the cost of building it triples.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the USA buy a shitload of oil from Canada?  What exactly are the sales compared to the USA buying oil from other customers?  Like the Middle East.

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I'm not sure what the total barrels per day count is, but we are told 85% of unrefined oil from the tar sands projects head south of the border. The Fort Mac project alone ( Syncrude ) when ramped up, is currently producing 425,000 barrels per day, and growing. Project and upgrader expansions are massive and continual . I think it's safe to say, "a shit load " would be a gross underestimation. 

Lamont Sanford
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Thanks for the information.  Yep, I thought we bought a lot of oil from upper North America.;  :)

Jeff0000
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Time to invade Canada!

soulful.terrain
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 Released today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-16/electric-car-battery-maker-a123-systems-files-bankruptcy.html

 

No sooner since the last post, another example of Obama's failure when it comes to Government picking the winners and losers in business. $249 Million wasted this time on a battery company ie; so-called "shovel ready green jobs."

What a stupid name for a company too.

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Could it be that the main reason coal use has declined is that it can't compete with the low price of Nat gas?  At least, that is what some economists maintain.

 

Let's step outside of partisanship for a moment and consider that.

Lamont frequently refers to the "invisible hand"  Maybe that is the reality of the situation.

 

My electric bill declined 50% this year after I switched to a plan that is tied to the price of Nat gas.

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Natural Gas is alive and well here in the deep South.

Still, we must utilize all forms of US energy and coal, certainly, plays a hefty role!

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