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July 13, 2007 - 11:55am
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any grateful dead fans here?
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Sorry can't think of a single Grateful Dead hit. (pronounced 'leh-'n
Greatful Dead was/is one of the WORST groups to ever TRY and make music. It's friggin CIRCUS music on drugs. Never got that group, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Wanna hear something REAL? www.mattoree.com
dup, you are a freaking idiot. you made a fool of yourself in the "crown:still cranking after 60 years" post and a continued here. Wether or not you care for the grateful dead's music, if you are even close to being intelligent, you should respect the fact that their the most successful touring band of all time, have over 200 songs, and pretty much defined an era. also, i didnt ask for fans of matoree, or whatever queer music you like, i asked for fans of the grateful dead, so dont post here.
Oh, I thought you asked for non fans of the worst thing to come out of the 60's music era, which produced the best , GD wasn't included in that list. Yeah those Rolling Stones ain't nutin' after 45 years, STILL filling stadiums, selling out in a few hours!! Yeeah, that ain't no success....tie died shirts do not produce good music. I was there, it sucked then, it still sucks.
I think the BEATLES, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, The Doors, and so many other groups defined the era. Ever hear of Janis Joplin or Jimi Hendrix...so much great stuff, too bad Greatful Dead ain't on that list. How much music did The Beatles write, start counting!!! 200 is that all for The Greatful dead that had way too many people in it anyway, a friggin circus performance troup But they did have a nice amp wall of sound setup for teh live stuff cool, too bad they played such crap through it.
They were part of the counter culture experiment around Haight Ashbury that fell flat on its face. Before long the hippies were down to eating kitty cats on the streets. Janis Joplin was a gross pig off the stage and Big Brother was the worse of the worst backup bands. The Grateful Dead spent an entire career creating the equivalent of the Renaissance Festivals for wannabe hippies. Wannabe hippies in reality, Bums. There were five ways to get out of Haight Ashbury at that time, (1) You got a real job or went to college and moved on in life, (2) You ended up dead (3) You ended up sitting around a mental day room masturbating and talking to yourself, (4) You ended up in the penal system or (5) You made a career of playing hippie to a guaranteed audience looking much the same as the last show. Over and over again. Over and over again. Did I mention Jerry Garcia ended up dying from complications of long term drug addiction in a mental day room somewhere? The Grateful Dead are and were just a bunch of bums that made a career feeding off an audience of bums that they created. I know because I grew up next door to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, Berkeley University, and across The Bay, The Hippies. Today, it is either a tourist attraction, a seething cesspool of indoctrination, drug addiction, a criminal element, or all of above. In the end, The Grateful Dead created a community of some of the most selfish people in the country. They do nothing for society except complain.
I'm unclear LS, how do you really feel?
My recollection may be wrong, but I think he died in his room while in rehab from a heart attack - not as a mental patient. I'm sure his drug use didn't help.
The greatfull dead where involved in some sort of drug activitys, you gotta be kidding, even with that they couldn't create music. Look what Hendrix did, drugs do work sometimes...Scuse me, while I kiss this guy.....
The Grateful Dead made great music anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't really know good music imho[i've been into em since 1981 btw].
I think Greatful Dead was the 60's equivalent of today's hip-hop/pop crap...unlistenable.....GD stuff was disjointed, spastic zero flow, zero rhythm, it was circus music, just look at teh clowns performing it, I've been not into it since they first appeared....
You're giving them some credibility there. They were and are *BUMS* Shameful opportunists with the rotting corpses of scores of overdosed bodies on their hands. Of course, look on the bright side. One dead overdosed Greatful Dead fan on the road is one less bum to collect from the government and complain about it as well. One more empty seat on some old, rusted, gas consumning old school bus painted like the Partridge Family's. They would do themselves a favor and step out of denial if they just say three words, "We suck, man!"
It's unbelievable how much people bought or still buy into the Grateful Dead's less than garage band sound and such bands as John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown Band are virtually unheard of unless you listen to Eddie & The Cruisers.
I was never very much interested in the Dead until Jon Iverson played some of their early material for me. Jon told me a bit about their approach to music and helped to break my own prejudices against the Dead's massive following. Now, the more I learn about them, and the more I listen to them, the more I appreciate what they were doing. In fact, I find their legacy fascinating. Their influence on music -- much really great music -- is huge.
The Fader recently ran a lovely piece on Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead.
Edit: Oh, so to answer the original question -- Yes, there are at least five Dead fans here in the Stereophile office.
Are they really dead?
Yes, we just died from bad joke.
You bet! Count me in. I listened to them a lot up to Terrapin Station then slowed down a little. "Truckin'/Epilogue" from Europe '72 is in my "Top 10 songs of all time" list. It's an intricate, coherent, melodic jam that really flows. "Birdsong", "Unbroken Chain", and "Help On The Way/Slipknot" are also favorites. Unfortunately, like a lot of bands back then, their early stuff could stand remastering, but given the times (
), I'm just glad it was even recorded!
Every one of their albums has been remastered btw.
HWK (or other Dead fans) -
Which of their remasterings have you heard? Are they significant improvements over the originals? Comments welcome - especially about Blues for Allah, Europe '72, Mars Hotel.
THX!
Particularly like the sound and music of the live "skull and roses" disc and American Beauty. Europe '72 also sounds good, and feels just right for the era - also try Hundred Year Hall from the same tour. However, you can't go wrong buying The Golden Road box set.
Get both The Golden Road and Beyond Description.....your pocketbook'll hate you but your ears'll thank you.
The American Beauty Remaster is great, has beautiful packaging and photos, and comes with some awesome bonus tracks: a live "Attics of my Life" and "Till the Morning Comes" (two songs rarely played live by the Dead) and a very funny radio commercial advertising the album
I used to tour in the lat 80s early 90s. Favorite songs? Hmm.... It really depended on the set. I have songs that I love, that in a strange set list were awkward (not bad, but awkward), like one show was,
Victim or a Crime-->Foolish Heart->Dark star...
It was a great show, but definitely a strange set. I don't think there are any songs I don't like, it all depends on the context. Some shows were just spot on, and I had my spot on.
Then another series of shows on tour that I hit were put on the album "Without a Net." The show where they played Dark Star with Branford Marsalis at Nassau Coliseum was one hot show.
Here was the set list:
Jack Straw, Bertha, We Can Run But We Can't Hide, Ramble On Rose, When I Paint My Masterpiece, Bird Song, Promised Land
Eyes Of The World-> Estimated Prophet-> Dark Star-> Drums-> Dark Star-> The Wheel-> Throwing Stones-> Turn On Your Love Light, E: Knockin' On Heaven's Door
I think without a doubt, live shows, even if recorded, are the way to go if you want to hear the captured spirit of the band.
I have a nice collection of the Dick's Picks, From the Vaults, mix board discs and studio albums (I lost all my tapes years ago when touring, from people either permanently borrowing them, heh, or plain out stealing them).
To me nothing has come close to some of the experiences I had on tour, except deep religious/spiritual experiences with God. There were moments on tour when the music, the audience and the band became one united organism conducting the event. I miss those moments of pure energetic synchronicity. Oh well, life moves on....
BTW, I just read through the rest of the thread.
I have to say, it doesn't bother me that some people hate the Grateful Dead. After all, I got to experience that a lot in high school. What does bother me is the lack of respect for other members and the personal attacks on the band. I would hope as fans of music, people would have the capacity to at least appreciate music as more than just a product of their own personal tastes, but as a product of certain time periods and genres that arose out of social movements and groups. I for example, wouldn't want a Jackson Pollock in my house, but I can 100% appreciate what it did for abstract expressionism and American art in general, as well as for the previously deteriorating New York art scene at that time. It revitalized a fading community and brought critical attention back to the East Coast.
So, you hate the Grateful Dead.... Grow up and practice a little self control. Keep it to yourself and post somewhere else on something you do enjoy. Have a little common decency and courtesy for other members who do appreciate and/or love the music.
That's all I have to say on this, thanks.
Hey, you know what? You need to stop being such a control freak and understand that the opinions of others can just as well be ignored as replied to. My respect for the Grateful Dead and *their* bums that follow them around stands. So there! Maybe we can all get together as a group and meld into one united organism but I doubt it. Cyber mushroom tea. BTW, you're not the only one here with a knowledge of the liberal arts. So, if it doesn't bother you, as you stated, than don't start the fight. Be cool, brother!
Grow up. I said it doesn't bother me that people "hate" the Grateful Dead. It is the lack of respect that is sad, and consequently bothersome. Some people can't help themselves, apparently, so I suppose I should feel sorry for their families and most of all for them, since ultimately, they have to live with themselves and their own thoughts. Have a nice day!
No, you grow up! Yada yada yada. Look in the mirror and take your own inventory. You're coming close to exhibiting some hypocrisy.
Do you have a link you can share?
No one would be able to take your inventory if you weren't so busy airing your dirty laundry all over this thread. You can't blame people for pointing out the obvious when you dangle it in front of their faces.
I'll tell you what. I'm going to do something nice for ya.
I'm going to have compassion for you and pray for you. You seem like you could use some help. I sincerely hope, no joke, that God is willing to give you some. Now, go ahead and have the last word, I'm finished with this exchange. Peace be with you and pleasant journeys.
Hey Kal, welcome to the
If Jesus was standing here and saw what some people were doing in is His name He would never stop throwing up.
Jesus, you're an asshole. Solution:short rope, tall tree.
No.
Strange thing, the fans of the Dead are some of the coolest people on the planet. Actually cooler than the band in my humble opinion. As far as the music goes...an aquired taste.
Mark Evans
What does drugs have to do with the music?
Was Jimi Hendrix circus music on drugs?
Some of the greatest musicians in history used drugs.
Mark Evans
[quote=CECE]I think the BEATLES, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, The Doors, and so many other groups defined the era. Ever hear of Janis Joplin or Jimi Hendrix...so much great stuff, quote]
CECE,
You stated that the Greatful Dead was 'circus music on drugs' in an above post.
But the bands/musicians you say that defined the era were known to be rampant users of drugs.
Some of the greatest musicians in history used drugs of some form or another which didn't minimize their creative abilities.
Mark Evans
40 years, 2300 concerts, over 120 albums and a couple of jerkoffs want to piss on the parade. Okie Dokie.
recently really started digging Bob Weir's record "Ace" - definitely up there as one of the best Grateful Dead records: "looks like rain" "playing in the band" and the oh so beautiful "Cassidy"
Alabama Dead Head here....
for the second time around, Garcia by Blair Jackson was an even better read.
Garcia was such a complex character troubled by many burdens. Fiercely independent, he didn't like for anyone to tell him what to do, and he paid that same respect to everyone else. A couple interesting/striking things about the man/book that i think are worthy of discussion
- Jerry had a problem of leaving his ex-wives/lovers completely in the dust, often asking members of his staff to inform the ex's of his departure. This undoubtedly left many serious partners of Jerry's incredibly unhappy. I find this fact somewhat disturbing, considering Garcia's forward, friendly, and giving nature. Unfortunately, he always remained 100% passive in terms of his personal love-life.
- Jerry's personal relationship with John Kahn was totally toxic. Kahn, the bassist for the Jerry Garcia Band and other Garcia projects, was Garcia's primary heroin buddy through the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Most of Kahn's statements re: Garcia's death indicate that Kahn felt drugs were not Jerry's problem. Based upon the text, this seems to be somewhat true. Garcia was endlessly drained by his multitudes of musical projects and different personal relationships, and most of all, the members of the Grateful Dead not really giving heed to the fact that Jerry just really needed a break. These surrounding circumstances certainly drained Jerry and more importantly, likely encouraged escapism via smoking heroin, or Persian as he liked to call it. What does this have to do with Kahn? It really just bothers me that
a. someone who was such a tight friend of Garcia's would continue to encourage his habit when his life was obviously fading as seen even in the 80s with his early symptoms.
b. its always easy for Kahn to say that it wasn't the drugs that killed Jerry as some sort of self-validating way of saying what Kahn was still doing posthumous wasn't so bad (unfortunately, Kahn also passed away of a heart-attack shortly after Garcia. similar deaths from people with similar substance abuse habits)
but who cares! As a psychologist, I was very interested in learning that as a child Jerry found his drowned grandfather in his pool. I wonder how that trauma affected his emotional health?
As for the band, I enjoy the music and have about 5 of their records but am not a dead head. I saw them once in concert and it was lots of fun, but they are not the end all and be all for me.
Having said that, I enjoy the classics and have both Workingman's Dead and American Beauty on dvd-a. The surround mix is too freaky for me, but the stereo is killa! I also listen to Shakedown Street on occasion. One of my favorites is Blues for Allah, which grooves me way hard!
Trey
as a correction: it was Jerry's father who died in a fly-fishing accident where he drowned in a river by the Santa Cruz mountains. While Garcia often claims he saw this event, it is widely asserted that he actually did not (with memories of the event based on having retold the story so many times).
In terms of his relationship to the death itself, based on the book, it appeared that Garcia maintained a similar reaction to this death as he had to many of the others in his life (even though he was only 5) -- as simply a thing that happened, and what could you do about it. A true psychedelic soul indeed - where death is simply part of the larger process of life...
that being said, Jerry was particularly depressed when his mother died. while they were not close as he pursued his musical career, she certainly facilitated a life for him as he was growing up.
but you raise an interesting point-->did the death of Jerry's father early his life lead to many of the emotional and personal troubles he created for himself later on?
for the accurate info! I think I read about it is a little book of paintings that Jerry did. I am a psychologist who works a lot with children, so me thinking his father's death wacked him is an occupational hazard!
But the man played some lovely guitar, didn't he? And I really enjoyed his voice, the playfulness in it. He is one of the guys I really miss, along with Warren Zevon, Jimi, and d boone and Buddy Holly. I really enjoy the doors, but Morrison was such a lush, if he had lived he just would have died if you get my drift.
Trey
yes. incredibly melodic and fluid playing. one of the true innovators of the linear melodic line on the guitar with a tickling jumpiness and soul-lifting attack: jerry's playing really levitates. The way he bounces back and around the scale - each of his notes added tension to a catapult pulled tighter and tighter until it releases in slow-motion.
great musicians to compare him to: people full of life and passion.
The Dead were passionate about good music and good times!
Just stumbled upon this while side-clicking from a thread on high-resolution downloads. Count me in as fan. There are phases in my life (some only days, other months long) where I find that I don't have a need for any other music than the Dead's.
My favorite tracks shift back and forth in time, "Bertha" was there for many years, lately it has rather been "Althea".
Sound-quality-wise, I tend to prefer the 80's GDCD issues over the HDCD remasters, but almost all of the officially released material is sonically good.
I am impressed with the reissue job that the folks from the Dead vault do (though on the downside that will eventually mean fewer hi quality concert recordings being available for free at archive.org). Been cueing up the Dead's Complete Europe '72 for days now ... and still 55 of 73 disks to go!
damn!
Althea is a wonderful song. Love that guitar line.
Hi Ariel,
--- needed to side-track from the Europe '72 route last night after a revisit to SM's entry on Colin Stetson, which put me on a trip backtracking the music of John Surman (more on that somewhere else, maybe) ---
to remain in-line with the topic of this thread i disclose some more of my Dead's favorites:
girls-wise, it would be Peggy-O along with the aforementioned Bertha and Althea;
boys-wise, we're talking "Easy Wind" (nice drum work), all variants of the Minglewood Blues (*) and the sweet-sounding, mean Candyman.
On better days, it's "Me and my Uncle" riding down, to scare you up and shoot you, coz "Mr. Charlie" (**) told me so, on worse days it "Looks Like Rain".
Enjoy! Wolfgang
(*) The Minglewood Blues is one main constituent of my "Lies about Lions" compilation. "I was born in the desert, Raised in a lion's den": ain't no lion got a den ... another being the Tokens' "In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight": ain't no lion in the jungle; its habitat is the savanna. Got any more lies, by chance? Compilation's still rather short.
(**) obvious here: a) I love to DANCE the Dead, and b) another compilation: collect all "Mr. Charlie"s from the Europe '72 tour which were played on 3rd position in their setlist: 15 entries, 1 full hour! - and not one dull version among them.
This song never fails me. Along with Stella Blue, easily my two favorite Dead ballads. Although, they sure do write a lot of good slow ones, its kinda hard to just pin down two (Brokedown Palace, Ripple, High Time, They Love Each Other, etc, etc, etc)...
you're so right: impossible to pin down two (or three, or ... a dozen), I enjoy all the ones you mention, thanks for connecting me again with "love each other" (had almost slipped off my radar).
Before my coming to the conclusion that the Dead's "live oeuvre" is THE stuff for me, I used to listen a lot to their 70s studio material, and especially enjoyed the Mars Hotel's "Unbroken Chain" (with its trippy synths).
Also love the rarely-played "To Lay Me Down" (my first encounter with that song was the Cowboy Junkies' goose-bumps version on the amazing "Deadicated" sampler - and this is the rare case where I find the cover more convincing than the Garcia/Hunter original - as a guitarist, Ariel, you need to give this song - and particularly Kim Deschamps' dobro solo - a listen in case you haven't yet ...)