The REL subs are lightning fast, tonally accurate, and wonderful at seamlessly integrating with a wide variety of speakers. I've paired them with a number of Magnepans to great effect.

There's no question that REL subs are good. However, all but one cost way more than MMG's. The T3 at $799 with an 8" woofer is questionable. Even that costs 25% more than the MMG's.

No. But I would think the better value is the STF-2 at $50.00 more but comfortable in medium size rooms.

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There's no question that REL subs are good. However, all but one cost way more than MMG's. The T3 at $799 with an 8" woofer is questionable. Even that costs 25% more than the MMG's.

But one can't make decisions on price. Just because someone got an unbelievable deal when it comes performance to dollars spent doesn't mean that they should skimp on performance in another area. MMG's may cost $550 a pair but they perform more like a $1500 to $2000 per pair, maybe more. My older brother ran a pair of MMG's with a pair of $10,000 Audio Research monoblocks for space reasons for quite a while and that was a stunning sounding system, seriously.

When doing match ups with electrostatics or the like, the best result happens when you find subs that have, lets say, 2 or 3 8" woofers. but not much if any bigger. getting the dynamic and expressive characteristics of the two driver types to match up -- is tricky.

You end up, eventually, hearing two different types of notes instead of a seamless blend.

Maybe I should have said there are better buys out there for the same amount of money. Were I in that situation I'd look at Velodyne or Martin Logan for a sub.

Matching subs with stats, Maggy's or almost any planar is difficult because planars are di-polar and subs are essentially omni-directional. The lower the crossover point the easier it is to get good integration between the two. The relatively high crossover point ML uses in their smaller models shows the differences in radiation patterns in a bad light (to me).

Oh yes. As well, try very hard to use sealed subs, and not ported subs. Very important with regard to integration.

looks good, as it is a sealed sub that is designed and implemented by the right guys - who just might know what I'm talking about, when it comes to integrating with a panel speaker.

I use a REL Storm w/MMGs and the sound is wonderful. Crossed over at 47hz. The REL is a ported 10" by the way.

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I use a REL Storm w/MMGs and the sound is wonderful. Crossed over at 47hz. The REL is a ported 10" by the way.

This is the internet, so now, apparently, we have to fight or something.

I'll go first.

"A ported sub? With panel speakers? That's a load of bollocks!"

Your turn.

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looks good, as it is a sealed sub that is designed and implemented by the right guys - who just might know what I'm talking about, when it comes to integrating with a panel speaker.

Those same folks use vented woofer/sub enclosures in many of their hybrid designs as well.

They also use equalization in some of those designs.

The biggest advantage to sealed designs is size, they can be much smaller than vented designs.

That sealed subs are 'faster' than a well designed vented unit is a myth. There are many ways to skin a cat.

I have the non-recommended list (sorry, had to get the dig in again:) Magnepan 1.6QR. I have integrated a Velodyne SPL1200. It was around $800 several years ago.

I have tried more powerful subs, but they were overpowering, and I just couldn't get a seamless transition.

The Velodyne is perfectly blending with the the Magnepans.

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I'm now leaning toward the Rythmik Audio F12G A370-PEQ.

Nice looking package. If you get one in house be sure to let us know your impressions.

I beleieve sealed designs require a larger volume for an equivelant output. It does look like an interesting sub however, plus they offer a 30 day satisfaction gaurantee. I use 2 subs to smooth out the in room bass response in my 3.6R based system . I also use wood risers and mapleshade heavyfeet under the subs and platforms...makes a huge difference for reducing boom and smearing and allows for a more seamless transition to the panels.

They are two Def Tech 200TL Prosubs that I stole for about $600/pair...they were mismatched leftovers from my HT supplier. After tweakin the setup and moving to 3.6's I managed to get pretty decent performance out of them. They go down to 18hz wt 500w/ch on tap. If I were in your position i would go for the rythmik's or maybe check out AV123's offerings...they also seem to be quite the deal and have good customer service and product support. FYI, I put brass heavyfeet on my subs and the wood platforms I have them on...a nice way to improve your sub's integration.

What are you using as wood platforms? Something DIY or a product?

I thought building raised stands for the MMG's was one of the more popular tweaks? Not sure about the height...

DIY oak stained and spiked with brass footers.

Why not just put the footers on the bottom of the subs?

Did that first and then lived with it for a while, but decided to try and decouple them even more from the floor...instinct I guess mostly . The result was far better definition, clarity and just overall integration...they simply do not draw attention to themselves anymore .

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I use a REL Storm w/MMGs and the sound is wonderful. Crossed over at 47hz. The REL is a ported 10" by the way.

This is the internet, so now, apparently, we have to fight or something.

I'll go first.

"A ported sub? With panel speakers? That's a load of bollocks!"

Your turn.

I just said that,"I have MMGs integrated w/ a REL 10" ported sub and it sounds wonderful." You can quote all the theory you want or you can meet me at high noon on main street and
I'll ...

OOH, OOH, do ya think I could jump in and piss somebody off to...please?

Let us know what subs work out for you and how they integrate. I use Def Tech subs and found that with some tweaking, experimenting with placement and deciding on the right IC for them, I have no complaints about their integration. More than once I thought about getting newer, better subs but....I'm just too happy as it is

I'm another Magnepan fan that has gotten very good results from using a Velodyne sub (mine is non-ported) and you simply cannot tell that the sub is there until the music calls for very low notes. The sub just doesn't slow the panel down or muck up notes coming from the panel.

I have tried some subs with various Maggies (MMG, 1.5 and 1.6's) and could always tell that a sub was on regardless of the music being played. There are several subs on the market from companies like Velodyne, REL, HSU Research and others that I'm sure you'd be very happy with once you have them dialed in. Just make sure that you buy from a dealer that will allow you to return the sub if it does not blend will with the MMG in your room.

Best of luck with your search and enjoy those MMG's.

I have the Hsu STF-2 subwoofer and am using it with my MMGs, and I think it's a great combination, both sound and price-wise ($350). I use the high-level inputs/outputs, a crossover setting of 50 Hz, and the level at 9 o'clock. Placement makes a lot of difference, in my medium-sized living/dining room area.

By keeping the MMGs full-spectrum, and the crossover point and volume low, the effect is very subtle, i.e. non-existant on much program material, and unless you are listening to pipe-organ music or very bottom bass or synth notes, mostly transient and reverberant information, like the almost subliminal *whump* after a crescendo, that keeps the excitement going. The kickdrum is now made quite distinct from the bass guitar, and from the other end of the house!

If the placement is good, the MMG's wonderful mid-bass articulation is preserved, and the sub is undetectable by location. I'm sure the STF-1 would do the same in a smaller room.

The Magnestand mod sure gives a very nice looking speaker.

I've got a F12 on order.  Tell us more about your initial settings and any changes.

Interesting that your pre has the low and high pass outputs, cool.  I have 2 sets of outputs on my pre, so will be running one set line level to the sub and the other set to the power amp running the Vandersteens full range.  I figure that will give me at least some of the advantages of more than one sub, since the Vandies go down reasonably low too.

I figure I will keep rumble filter off except ON when playing vinyl.

And one thing I have learned is that my overhead light fixture vibrates/rattles like hell when the Rhythmik is putting out clean tight 20 Hz.  That light never rattled with my full range speakers + my other subwoofer.  Wow the F12SE goes deep, comfortably.

LINE IN

POWER AUTO LIMITER OFF

PEQ OFF

PHASE/DELAY 135 degrees

CROSSOVER 80

VOLUME 60% (about 1:00)

LINE IN LOW PASS 50 Hz/24

RUMBLE FILTER OFF (ON with vinyl)

EXTENSION FILTER FREQ 14

EXTENSION FILTER DAMPING Med

I have the F12 connected to the "bypass" set of line outputs from my preamp, while my main speakers are driven full range by the power amp.  Although it's only necessary to run 1 interconnect from the preamp to sub (if I used a Y connector) I run 2 anyway, 'cause more is better (maybe, and certainly can't hurt) to get maximum signal to the sub.

I used an SPL meter and Stereophile's Test CD 2 to record the frequency response at my listening position, at 5 different phase positions.  The 135 degrees phase was just slightly better than other phase positions.  That agreed with my ears as it happened, in this case.

Integration is excellent and the sub position cannot be localized (right now I have it inboard of the right main speaker, on the same plane).  The depth of the bass is unprecedented in my system.  I will be doing further adjustments/testing over time but no rush anymore -- I'm pleased with it right now and listening a LOT.

Highly recommended:  James Blake's self titled album.  It's on my personal favorites of 2011 anyway.  And as it happens, track 5 gives great "room lock" with this subwoofer.