Because Mallard is a Conservative, and a duck at that...

Although, like Trudeau, Mr. Duck is most good for the occasional knee-slapper. At my age, that's the best you get.

Well, we agree... sort of. Enjoy the fantasy. There is a reason why lexicologists all agreed to keep the word "fantasy" in all the dictionaries.

Reality, unfortunately, is different. The majority (a sad fact, I must admit) follow orders when and where (forgive the cliche) the rubber meets the road.

If you don't think it could happen HERE... well, enjoy your fantasy.

Having come from the military, I trust the military more than I do any other institution in the country....they are light years more honorable than the best of our politicians.

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Having come from the military, I trust the military more than I do any other institution in the country....they are light years more honorable than the best of our politicians.

Ahh, so how does this relate to either democracy or government by republic?

Honorable? Very likely. But publically elected? Not at all.

Favoring the military is a call for plain old dictatorship, really.

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Having come from the military, I trust the military more than I do any other institution in the country....they are light years more honorable than the best of our politicians.

Good! Then they can expect a welcome mat when they come down there to reconstruct the redness out of your state.

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Why are all the black people ganging up on the white people on this thread?

I had no idea I was black! Jayzuzz!!! When did that happen?

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Having come from the military, I trust the military more than I do any other institution in the country....they are light years more honorable than the best of our politicians.

Ahh, so how does this relate to either democracy or government by republic?

Honorable? Very likely. But publically elected? Not at all.

Favoring the military is a call for plain old dictatorship, really.

'Publicly elected' simply means 'lies well and buys votes'...the military does not work that way. Kennedy and Franks would not even make buck private before they were removed for cause.

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Having come from the military, I trust the military more than I do any other institution in the country....they are light years more honorable than the best of our politicians.

Good! Then they can expect a welcome mat when they come down there to reconstruct the redness out of your state.

Dream on...the only folk that would come would be the few that had not been outed for drug abuse or other faults and a few political officers to lead them. I suspect they would get lost on the way.

JIMV, just because you trust the military doesn't mean they are trustworthy.

You say that political office is conferred on the best liars. I wouldn't argue. But how do you think Generals become Generals?

You can probably make Staff Sergeant on the straight, and all 2nd Lieutenants have to do to make Captain is follow orders. I know. I was one of the latter. But then it gets interesting, AND "political."

Google "My Lai Massacres" if you want to learn about following orders blindly, even when the orders violate supposedly "higher" laws of conscience.

This stuff happens all the time. If you want the classical treatment of the larger issues, read Sophocles' Antigone.

Even Thoreau had to do jail time, and nobody volunteered to spend a few nights with him behind bars. Of course, HE probably liked that -- sort of proved his point.

We won't even get into the goings on at Gitmo, when it comes to following orders, or the sycophantic press who sucked up to Bush during his public announcements.

The Code of Military Justice, it is true, forbids following unlawful orders. But that is a slippery slope if you want that life-changing promotion.

Back to my original point. If you think making rank is any different from getting elected, in terms of lying and following orders, you are sadly naive. Most people follow orders, civilian or military. Disobedience in the face of any overwhelming majority is a lonely job that usually puts you in the smallest of all minorities -- the minority of one. And the easiest task in the overall human scheme of things is to throw some "individual" behind bars for living dangerously on the lunatic fringe. If it is "unjust" at the time of arrest, the more convincing argument vouching for the justice of it will come later.

Remember, we are now aware of the irresponsibility of "just following orders" only because the Nazis lost the war. If they had won, "just following orders" would have been defined as the moral thing to do. If you win the war, you get to say you won it the "right" way, no matter how you "really" won it.

If you think the military could do a better job of running the country than even the lyingest politicos, I give you Ollie North, and a list of others too long for this thread.

This...

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But how do you think Generals become Generals?

Show and proves you know nothing of the military..

No, amoeba-brain, I won't shut the fuck up.

What's a "foley catheter"?

Apparently, I know more than you, and I have a DD-214 to prove it. And a few barely visible scars.

Generals become Generals the same way Presidents become Presidents, Congressmen become Congressmen, and Senators become Senators. They all just kiss different asses from different, er, positions.

I assume you are a veteran, as I am, and I thus give you the benefit of the doubt without questioning your service. 'Tis a pity you didn't learn anything about how the rank-ladder works. Perhaps you would have achieved a higher rank and a larger pension, had you worked your superiors properly (always a good idea, if you want to improve your position in life...).

I? I didn't want to improve my position in life, so I resigned my commission... WITHOUT staying around long enough to collect a pension at a higher rank. No regrets. I received an honorable discharge for honorable service. Fortunately, and I mean that literally, my peacetime and wartime service didn't put me into any situations wherein I had to spend sleepless nights about whether to compromise or not to compromise. And that's just luck. Like the 4" that separated a round between the runnin' lights and a mere two-day headache. Like the 10 meters that separated my patrol route from my buddy's, the night he hit the trip-wire. Like the one-year time interval and the 200-mile distance interval that separated me from Lt. Calley.
What would I have done? I will never know. And, CERTAINLY, you won't.

Okay, General JIMV, how many dicks did YOU have to suck to become a General? It's okay. You can tell us. We all understand.

I did my 20 . I did mine during and after we flushed the worthless dopers when we became an all volunteer military. I was in 74-94 and again, trust the military vastly more than I trust any other institution we have. While individual officers and NCO's might be worthless self servers, they are rare exceptions and not the norm as they are in politics.

You really sound like one of the folk we flushed out in the 1970's while trying to become a professional operation and not a draft based one.

This is a weird melange, JIMV. First, if you stayed for 20 .... well, remember you worked for the government for 20. I'm not sure I would want to brag about that, if I were you, especially since you apparently believe that the armed services do not take orders from Congress and whoever is President.

I was not drafted. And "you" didn't "flush out" anybody. Your superiors did if, indeed, anyone was flushed out. You were/are merely a tiny link in the chain of command. All you did was watch somebody else do the flushing. And now, during times when we need cannon fodder, I doubt that even the dopers are getting "flushed out."

Finally, your recurring theme is "trust." "Individual officers and NCO's" run things, the higher you go up the chain of command. You apparently missed my point. Blind trust is the merely the B side of the A side you are trying to refute. They are both on the same LP. After all, it is blind trust that leads to the "I was only following orders" rationalization. Your "blind trust," after 20 years of conditioning, is not a universal dictum for the rest of us. We know better.

Lamont, my DD-214 just got me a new house, now in escrow. I used the educational benefit to help defray the costs of graduate school, and it was a good deal, since I did finish my PhD at UC Irvine. But I had never used the VA home loan benefit until now. It is a good deal, with homes on sale. Finally, at my age, I get the no-down-payment leverage. I earned it, and THAT case is closed. Don't whine to me if YOU rusted out with nothing to show for your service. That is your problem, and I can certainly understand your fixation with WD-40, given the creaking condition of your obviously deteriorating cognitive functions.

Gold-plated coins from Lithuania (Liberia?? Something with an "L" -- I have forgotten your blather already). No. I bought only Maple Leafs and American Eagles. 10 years ago. If you had half a brain, or HAD had half a brain at that time, you would have done the same. But, ipso facto, you don't/didn't, so you didn't. Again, don't blame me for your, er, mental deficiencies. My doing commercials? I assume you don't mean this literally, since you have no specific examples of my doing TV commercials. Thus, this reference must be some feeble attempt at wit by a half-wit. What are the tenor and vehicle for this brilliant trope, Lamont? Remember, only bombers need to explain their own bad jokes.

Lamont, you are fading fast. Your avatar is phony and contrived, and all you do is whine about your inability to progress in your life. Take a self-help course. Please. Before our pity turns to boredom.

Of course you "have" to agree with JIMV. Where that leaves you is another question. Let's see. I am a "fucking bum" because I waited 40 years to use my VA loan entitlement. And, we won't even get into "entitlements," eh? Your last post questioned my having a DD-214, as opposed to your anti-rust spray. Now, it appears I HAVE one, and am a "fucking bum" for using it.

Get your story straight, rust-brain. I recommend WD-40 for your frontal lobes (you may be able to get it there by sniffing it... but I wouldn't know as well as you from experience) and I recommend gin for the parietal lobes.

I fucked up the Carter - Reagan regime. Good logic. Perhaps a little more WD-40 might sharpen your cognitive skills. I doubt it, but from YOUR moronic level, what could it hurt?

My doctorate "symbolizes the abuse" we "idiots" put on the GI Bill. Actually, my doctorate put me in a position to teach idiots like you how to think. Alas, I have to agree with you. What a waste of time.

Still, we tried. You never know until you see the failures in the rear-view mirror. Sigh. Another social experiment gone wrong.

C'mon, hamburger brain. Give us some more of your pristine logic.

Of course, the fact that the Carter-Reagan regime fucked up the military couldn't have had anything to do with your self-admitted fact that YOU were the exemplar of their choices for military duty, right?

Whew. Thanks for letting me off the hook. For a moment, I thought it was all MY fault.

Hey. Don't blame ME because YOU fucked up the "military machine." I wasn't there. You were.

Apparently, though, we can agree on one thing, right? The "military machine" IS fucked up. I guess the onus that burdens those who were responsible will rest on the judgments of History. Damn. Once again, we have to wait, in order to discover whose fault it really was.

Meantime, don't blame ME for Carter-Reagan. YOU were the one who helped them along with your blind obedience. I was long gone by then.

I got Nixon. Shit. Hey. I was only 25. What's YOUR excuse, other than a few missing synapses between the ears???

I encourage you to keep posting along this vein, Lamont. Your true genius shines forth brighter and brighter with every witticism.

I have no idea who started this thread. However, I DO think it should be re-titled, "The Wit and Wisdom of Lamont." JIMV will second the motion, I am sure.
Meanwhile. Hey. Send me a few thousand, dimwit. I have some laminated (the numismatic term is "clad," but why quibble over semantics??) gold coins that I'll let you have on the cheap. Guaranteed. You'll never regret it, sucker, because these are from the lost continent of Atlantis, and are priceless. But, for you, I have a deal. $10,000 gets you 100 ounces. Why pay ten times more? These are just as shiny and have a recess-cut image of my balls on the obverse. While you are looking, you can kiss my ass, moron.

Other than that, good luck. You will need it.

You waste your time...the fellow does not seem to understand the modern military is not the same thing as the military in the draft years where quantity trumped quality every time. Anyone who thinks the military operates the same way as systems of elected folk and their political equivalents is simply too clueless to understand the service.

Yeah, Lamont. I understand. The multi-syllabic words and relative clauses just gave you a whangin' headache. And now, it's nap-time.

Sorry. I'll try to keep to simple sentences and mono-syllabics.

Not. Your attention is not required. Neither I, nor anybody else, gives a shit whether you reach your threshold of pain after the first comma or not.

By all means, stop reading when you reach the limits of your comprehension, a moment that must always occur sooner rather than later, no matter what you are attempting to parse.

JIMV, I (and others, surely...) must wonder what made you opt out after a mere 20. Since gruntsville is your Eden, why not just remain in your boots and (taxpayer-paid-for) skivvies until you pass the last latrine? Your "modern" version of the armed forces bears a suspicious resemblance to Caesar's. And that was a long time ago.

Tell us all why you EVER decided to leave such a delicious life...

This is a good strategy, micro-brain. The less you write, the less stupid you appear.

You wouldn't want to go into negative equity, by writing MORE each time, right?

Why bother to tell me when you stop reading, when you obviously continue reading on the sly???

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I encourage you to keep posting along this vein, Lamont. Your true genius shines forth brighter and brighter with every witticism.

I have no idea who started this thread. However, I DO think it should be re-titled, "The Wit and Wisdom of Lamont." JIMV will second the motion, I am sure.
Meanwhile. Hey. Send me a few thousand, dimwit. I have some laminated (the numismatic term is "clad," but why quibble over semantics??) gold coins that I'll let you have on the cheap. Guaranteed. You'll never regret it, sucker, because these are from the lost continent of Atlantis, and are priceless. But, for you, I have a deal. $10,000 gets you 100 ounces. Why pay ten times more? These are just as shiny and have a recess-cut image of my balls on the obverse. While you are looking, you can kiss my ass, moron.

Other than that, good luck. You will need it.

Oh my lordy, Clifton... you ARE awesome, man! I loved that last rip to the core! Thanks for absolutely bitch-slapping the hell of that utter imbecile. And you know he read EVERY word!