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JasonVSerinus
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State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and June 28
jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

Sounds like it a good idea for an interesting seminar but, pray tell, why isn't Slim Devices being represented? Or for that matter, the Linn DS series of digital music streaming devices? Sounds more like an event for the "in crowd" than something to broaden the scope of computer based audio.

RGibran
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

And we need this because?

Oh...So Loose can sell some more way overpriced servers.

Damn Jason, no Nordost cables?

You could have mentioned a mere $279.00 lets one rub elbows with the incrowd!

RG

jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

As far as I can tell the "industry leader" in computer based audio would be Apples' iTunes followed a long way back by LogiTech's Squeezebox with Sooloos and it's high end brethren (like Linn) bringing up the rear.

All in all, it appears to be just another high end cluster f*%k, which will turn out to have absolutely no impact on the state of computer based audio for 99.9% of all users. But since Prof. Keith O. Johnson of Reference Recordings will be there one will get the chance to meet the ghost of Harry James or some other washed up jazz "legend" - in high resolution, of course.

Editor
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun


Quote:
You could have mentioned a mere $279.00 lets one rub elbows with the incrowd!

Jason did mention the admission price in his Stereophile piece.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

JA,

I love the way you manage to stay above the fray. Addressing only the fact that Jason did mention the absurd admission price while ignoring all the other points. In all fairness to Stereophile, this is not a Stereophile event and all Jason was doing was passing along a press release. I would like to believe that if Stereophile was involved in this event or a similar event that many of the issues raised by myself and rgibran wouldn't even be issues in the first place, such the lack of representation by both Apple and Logitech. I hope that I am correct in my belief.

comp.audiophile
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun


Quote:
... Addressing only the fact that Jason did mention the absurd admission price while ignoring all the other points. In all fairness to Stereophile, this is not a Stereophile event and all Jason was doing was passing along a press release. I would like to believe that if Stereophile was involved in this event or a similar event that many of the issues raised by myself and rgibran wouldn't even be issues in the first place, such the lack of representation by both Apple and Logitech. I hope that I am correct in my belief.

Hi Ralph (JazzFan) - While the admission price may seem absurd to you to actual cost of putting on this event is substantial. Nobody is making money here. Also, Jason was not merely passing along a press release. Jason called to interview a couple of us involved and wrote the article himself. Certainly not passing along a canned press release, and I thank Jason for that. Your comments about the lack of representation by Apple and Logitech may be valid to you but there is a limit on who we can have at the Symposium. We've selected some of the most respected engineers in the industry to speak and answer any questions the attendees have. Also, we asked Sooloos to participate because we believe their user interface and design is wonderful for listening to music. I personally don't think Logitech is at the forefront in terms of audiophile sound quality and again we had to put limits on who is involved. This is not a show like RMAF or CES and there is no manufacturer sponsorship. Instead we are talking about and demonstrating what we consider to be very very high quality music playback in the home with a music server.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are bashing the event without a good understanding of what it is about. It's also quite strange to me that those of us trying to increase the computer audio knowledge of the industry and promote high-end audio are being met with this bashing.

The comment, "All in all, it appears to be just another high end cluster f*%k, which will turn out to have absolutely no impact on the state of computer based audio for 99.9% of all users." may say more about your personality than the event itself.

Hi rgibran - I am a bit confused about who the "in crowd" you're referencing actually is.

Not trying to stir the pot or ruffle feathers, rather just trying to get some clarification and clear up possible misunderstandings about the upcoming event.

RGibran
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

After much research, which should not have been necessary, the event would seem to be at least 50% or more focused on computer recording hardware and software, yet is billed as a playback sympoisium?

Do you have an outline of the sessions agenda?

RG

jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

Hi Chris,

First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond to our rants. Now that the pleasantries are out of the way let's address a few points.


Quote:
Hi Ralph (JazzFan) - While the admission price may seem absurd to you to actual cost of putting on this event is substantial. Nobody is making money here. Also, Jason was not merely passing along a press release. Jason called to interview a couple of us involved and wrote the article himself. Certainly not passing along a canned press release, and I thank Jason for that.

Yes, you're correct Jason did not just pass along a press release rather he passed along an extended press release. Mea culpa.


Quote:
Your comments about the lack of representation by Apple and Logitech may be valid to you but there is a limit on who we can have at the Symposium. We've selected some of the most respected engineers in the industry to speak and answer any questions the attendees have. Also, we asked Sooloos to participate because we believe their user interface and design is wonderful for listening to music. I personally don't think Logitech is at the forefront in terms of audiophile sound quality and again we had to put limits on who is involved. This is not a show like RMAF or CES and there is no manufacturer sponsorship. Instead we are talking about and demonstrating what we consider to be very very high quality music playback in the home with a music server.

This paragraph is filled with so much BS that I don't know where to begin. Let's start with the lack of Apple and Logitech being valid only to me. Apple's iTunes is by far (and I do mean by far, like what a 10 to 1 margin over it's closest competitor) the most widely used computer based audio system. And as far as music servers are concerned the Slim Devices products made by Logitech are the leading music streaming devices on the market. So I think that their lack of attendance would be a concern to others besides myself.

As for "audiophile sound quality", Logitech's Transporter has won several awards and been given high praise by much of the audiophile press. I tried to see if I could find a head to head comparison of the sound quality of the Transporter and the Sooloos but so far I haven't been able to locate one.

But it's the last sentence of the paragraph which really threw me: "music playback in the home with a music server" when according to Jason's wonderful piece of journalism we are told:


Quote:
State-of-the-Art: Three different playback systems will be in use. The first, in Fantasy's famed Studio A, will house the main system, including a PowerMac G5 equipped with a Linx PCI card, a Matan server, a Mac with a Lynx PCIe card, a custom-configured Zalman Windows XP-based computer with a Lynx PCI card, and Magico M5 loudspeakers. Each computer will have a dedicated Pacific Microsonics Model 2 converter. The lounge system, also excellent, will focus on simplicity and hands-on use. ("A big G5 doesn't work in everyone's living room," says Connaker). Finally, the vocal booth system will focus on ripping vinyl to digital using yet another Pacific Microsonics Model 2 converter. Johnson will also record a live to two-track session in Studio D, which will then be played back on the various systems.

From my neophyte understanding of computer based audio, I take the above to mean that the computers will be DIRECTLY connected, as in HARD WIRED, to the playback system (amps and speakers) and NOT connected via a streaming device and server. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Quote:
I'm somewhat surprised that you are bashing the event without a good understanding of what it is about. It's also quite strange to me that those of us trying to increase the computer audio knowledge of the industry and promote high-end audio are being met with this bashing.

Pray tell, what constitutes "a good understanding" of computer based audio? I have been using a Slim Devices Transporter along with several Slim Devices Squeezeboxes and SqueezeCenter for several years and have ripped several thousand CDs to a hard drive. I think that I have "a good understanding" of many of the issues involved in computer based audio such as file formats, bit depth, sampling rates, DRM, network configuration (for those of us who actually use music streaming device run via a server rather than a hard wired computer to audio playback system), data storage and backup (I have well over a terabyte of music stored as flac files), music library configuration, proper file tagging and how to use an external DAC. Did I miss anything?

jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun


Quote:
After much research, which should not have been necessary, the event would seem to be at least 50% or more focused on computer recording hardware and software, yet is billed as a playback sympoisium?

Do you have an outline of the sessions agenda?

RG

RG,

I seemed to have missed that point. Glad you have my back

My original assessment of this event being a cluster-f.... seems to be even more dead-on perfect after reading Chris' lame response. Computer based audio with no mention of iTunes, whether it be positive or negative, is just another fine example of high end audio shooting itself in the foot. Oh wait, vinyl is coming back but then again so is SACD and BetaMax. Checked out my local Best Buy yesterday and I couldn't find the vinyl section but I did find lots of iPods and iPod accessories like docking stations, which I would think most people would consider to fall within the realm of "computer audio" since an iPod without a computer and iTunes equals no music. But what I do I know since I don't have a good understanding of computer based audio.

Jon Iverson
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

Hey it's an event that some will find interesting and should attend, the others should just self-select to do something else. It looks like a very well-planned event, and I'm glad they are putting it on. If you can't appreciate what this is about, there's no need to try to tear it down.

jazzfan
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun


Quote:
Hey it's an event that some will find interesting and should attend, the others should just self-select to do something else. It looks like a very well-planned event, and I'm glad they are putting it on. If you can't appreciate what this is about, there's no need to try to tear it down.

Jon,

The whole point of what RG and I are trying to say is that what the event is being billed as being about and what it appears to be about (based on our research into what is actually being planned to take place) are two completely different things. What it's being billed as could, in fact, turn out to be something useful, that is if some the truly major players in the field of computer based audio were to be involved, however, what is actually going to take place, with the second string team involved, is just a waste of time and money.

Oh by the way, for around the same cost as the price of admission to this event one can get a SqueezeBox Classic and jump head first in the real world of computer based audio and not into some pretentious high end nonsense.

RGibran
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Re: State-of-the-Art Computer Playback Symposium June 27 and Jun

I was having a similar thought. For the price of admission they could buy a Squeezebox and hook it up to one of those fancy 5K DACs they will have on hand. Then they could have some fun attempting to see how many golden ears could reliably tell the difference in feeds. Now that would advance the state of computer served music.

Yeah, I know the Squeezebox is limited to 44.1/16 but at last check so was that 7-15K Sooloos with no wireless capability and approx. 5 times the jitter amongst many other shortcomings. How did they get invited to this Hi-Rez event? Oh yea, they looked cute in their britches and boots.

Instead they will be demoing some 5K hardware/software combo that replaces iTune's compromised use of CoreAudio with their own sound processing engine, but retains the iTunes user interface. THAT"S gonna cause Jazzfan to yell back at the TV! Haven

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