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March 29, 2009 - 6:13am
#1
Can we bring DUP back in here or what?
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Yeah, DUPs ban is starting to become a political one. He is our own little Gitmo prisoner.
Alex
Ive got a better idea.
Lets ban all the guys who like to start fights, that way all the sensible people who no longer post on this site because of the hateful atmosphere that exists will start to come back.
Alan
Molly Johnson: All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path. From bondage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Agreed...bring back Dup
Is that not another way of saying that all those who espouse the same allowed party line will remain and those speaking audio heresy or political truth will be gone...
You know...Computers might not be the path to audio nirvana just yet, prices just might be absurd, Global warming might be a cult and The Anointed One might be an economic nincompoop?
Where would the forum be without those voices?
Makes for a very boring forum.
Jim
DUP was not banned because he had his own audio ideas.
He was banned because he attacked people and forced his opinions onto the forum.
Nobody is against free speech and opinion, i want to throw out the people who like DUP believe that there opinion is the only one and will attack people who dont. This is why the forum is becoming such a negative place, all the normal people just got sick of the shit and left.
Bringing back DUP would be the final nail in the forum's coffin for a lot of people.
Alan
So your argument is that since the forum is already polluted why not actively make it MORE polluted with extra venom? Sorry Alex I can't agree with you at all. It's been said may time and in many ways he wasn't banned for WHAT he said but HOW and HOW OFTEN he said it. His views aren't that different from Ethan but Mr Winer does contribute positively on some topics and if he were banned I would be out raged. Even when his views are counter to mine Ethan states them in such a manner where they are not inflammatory. Provocative yes, inflammatory no. DUP had ample warnings to modify his behavior to comply with the expected decorum of this forum. He failed to do so. How many temporary bans were there? How many trips to "The Dead Zone?" And of course we don't know how many written warnings he received through private messages from Stephen, but I would suspect it was a lot.
How long would a forum for Christian discussion allow an impolite Atheist to piss in their Cheerios? How long would a sports car enthusiast forum allow a radical ecologists to rail against petroleum based vehicles? How long would a mechanical wristwatch board put up with him screaming, quartz is beter, more akurite. You guys wasting teh cash." OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER, ad nauseum? I have great respect for JA and Stephen seems like a nice guy but I'll go as far as to say that they waited FAR too long to do what needed to be done.
That makes more sense to me than banning DUP. At least DUP never started fights. mrlowry has a point too, but I feel DUP's frustration because by and large he is right on the issues. Yes, DUP said the same things over and over, but so do I, and so does everyone else here.
So here it is in bold:
Bring back DUP!
--Ethan
I've copied and pasted my remarks from another thread here because I think that they are relevant to this discussion too:
I think that the MAJOR problem is that people take differences of opinion with another poster personally and then that spills out into other threads. Then we see skirmishes elsewhere in the forum between those two individuals that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the original thread and/or little to do with the thread that is hosting the new skirmish. They start "hunting" that person and seize on any opportunity to attack.
It seems obvious but just because I disagree with someone about one area DOES NOT invalidate their knowledge on another subject. For example, ncdrawl somewhat advocates inexpensive direct drive turntables while I, on the other hand believe their performance is severely compromised. However, this doesn't impact the fact that I'm sure that he knows more about mic placement and recording techniques. I haven't taken to stalking him around the forum looking for opportunities to "slam" him. While he engages in spirited debate I really haven't seen him engage in name calling.
While I wouldn't want to see the occasional heated remarks of a normally polite, rational, and even-tempered regular being censored people who regularly engage in name calling, be-belittling, and general insulting should be on a much tighter leash. Who should be on those leashes? That's not my call but I do think that a trip to the pet store is in order.
In general I am a defender of the magazine, and of JA and SM in particular because from all available evidence they are fair and honest people. So I hope that my position is taken as constructive criticism given in an effort to improve the forum. The magazine is near perfect, the forum could use a little tweaking. Maybe some better power cords on the servers would help. Sorry I couldn't resist a poke at myself.
Its very simple
Bring back DUP and let the forum become one big cesspool of pissing matches or get rid of the rest of the confrontational people and let the forum get back to open exchange of ideas where people are not afraid of being attacked by the forum bullies.
Alan
Nazi
Thanks Lamont
Being British and having numerous members of my family killed during the second world war i really appreciate the hatred and venom shown by your thoughtful repsonse.
Of course you would not mind in the same spirit if i say i hope your loved ones were in the twin towers on 9/11
Alan
If you want DUP back but can't have him, just start ten threads in a row about how all wires sound the same and make all the post content for each thread a link to your favored wire company.
Then start ten threads in a row about how the ONLY live reference should be The House of Blues, Chicago.
Then, ten more about Legacy speakers and the genius of Bill Duddleston.
Then, twenty about AVA electronics.
Et voila! DUP is back.
Or, just go back in the threads and keep bringing his old topics back. It would be just as good as having him here, because the content didn't really ever vary.
If you guys are serious about having DUP's presence here, quit whining and start posting teh way he posted! Bring him back in spirit.
Or, go check out the fabulous forums that show appropriate reverence and appreciation of DUP. I'm sure he must be the toast of the internet audio world, and Stereophile's under-appreciation of him makes them look foolish compared to the forums where DUP runs unfettered. Right?
DUP is probably the King of Audiokarma, or the Duke of Audio Asylum, or maybe the Archbishop of Audio Circle.
Surely, some place must recognize his genius.
Hey, Alex; you got to be kidding, right?
He was banned because 97% of what he said was offensive, totally off the wall and off the subject at hand, and irrelevant drivel to boot. On the rare occasions when he had something to say that was relevant, he couldn't articulate it in any way that made the slightest sense anyway. I always had a mental picture of him foaming at the mouth and spasmodically hitting the keys with his nose as he wrote.
Advocating bringing back DUP is like advocating bringing back bubonic plague and smallpox because you are bored with the diseases we have....
Keep him in Gitmo and torture him! He deserves it for all of the torture that he put me through...lol.
I have kin that were killed by the British. What's your point?
Lamont, you are hilarious. King of the piss-takers.
Some folks should lighten up a bit. Rabble rousing jackasses like you keep the forum interesting. 
If DUP would chill a bit with the repetitive stuff, i'd like to see him back. I enjoy seeing opposing viewpoints, being in the thick of things.
I look at online forums as a bar of sorts. Drunk idiots, designated drivers, bartenders, adulterers, and sociopaths, all having a good time. The delicate flowers seeking intellectual discussion without the "riff raff" ought go down the road to the MENSA boards or some such place or stay home. I enjoy the mix of people we have going on in here.
My point is that you should not go around calling people things like "nazi"
Why does a hifi discussion need to involve things like that ?
NC
Your right.
Some of you like to go to a bar full of drunken loud mouthed assholes for a good pointless fight on a friday night.
Some of us like to catch a concert, have a nice meal, a few beers or a bottle of wine and go home relaxed with a full complement of teeth.
So what is the target for the forum ?
Alan
I would like to get back on topic, so I would appreciate if we were to get away from the nazi/victim of the british bregade type of a discussion. Let's stick to the topic at hand.
My point is that the moderators thought that by removing DUP, these forums would become civil and revolve around audio discussions. That hasn't happened. The forums are what they are and bringing DUP back won't affect that in the least. If you don't like him, you can always ignore him the way I ignore JV and KBK.
Speaking of JV and KBK, if we were to start removing all the offending posters, such as JV, KBK, Lamont, Ethan Winer, SelfDivider, etc. Who's going to be left? My guess is Jackfish will be the only contributing member as he's the ONLY one never to have engaged in any pissing matches, controversies, etc. He's the only one who keeps strictly to the entry level forums and contributes constructively. So, if this is where the moderators want to be, then I suggest wiping the slate clean, removing EVERYONE except for Jackfish and introducing a different culture to these forums.
Until that happens, let's bring DUP back. He's no worse an offender than any other mentioned above. Furthermore, he has less of an impact on the forums than the moderators realized.
in my day, yeah, ive been known to indulge in the baser sides of my nature.
Great fun, but wife won't let me anymore.
a fun, not too serious place to shoot the breeze... tight-assed "intellectual" discussions are ok for a while, but the sort of people that would rather indulge in that type of thing nonstop..i find them to be bores. I won't name any names, but there are a couple here that seem a bit too--eh bland/easily offended? anyone that would get up in arms over an internet forum, would go through great lengths to announce that they are leaving the online scene because it doesn't suit their standards..doesnt need to be online anyway. I'd like to see more people grow a pair here, personally. and if you(not you in particular) are going to leave, hell..do it and shut the &*%$ up about it already, drama queen.
it takes all kinds, Alan. let people do what they do.
I don't want him back and don't want to argue about it. Just consider this a vote against him being allowed back. He had plenty of opportunity to clean up his act, IMHO.
He may be a fine audiophile in person, but he doesn't know how to say anything useful on a forum.
Dave
NC
What a great atitude.
You want everything to be at a cesspool level and anyone who just wants a civilised discussion is an intellectual bore and drama queen.
I deal with assholes like you all day at work, i just do not want to deal with you at night.
You are typical of the current downward trend in American culture, you take the things provided for you by generations and abuse them until they are gone.
Go ahead, carry on insulting people who will not resort to your level of trash.
Im sure you will make everyone proud.
Alan
Agreed. But at least one virtue that all of us assholes have over DUP is that we have enough sense not to monopolize entire page(s) of a thread. Sure there's still shit going on, but there's still an exchange. Just dig up some of older threads that DUP took over. You'll see that he'd post like 10 posts in a row when the entire body of other members combined would post 1 or something.
Agreed. I should have said, "Nayzi"
http://movies.apple.com/movies/weinstein/inglouriousbasterds/inglouriousbasterds-tlr2_480p.mov
Not as great as your spelling.
I want people to be who they are. Warts N all..
Aint going anywhere. Sorry.
that makes no sense whatsoever, but..ok?
Guess the group that "will not resort to your level of trash" does not include you, eh?
Want to venture a guess as to who I was talking about when I mentioned the "overly sensitive?" (one of them anyway)
Downward trend in American culture would include this forum. Why should we be any different. Blame it on the Irish. Not us Americans. Actually, it didn't take long for you to start acting just like us.
Welsh...are you not..eh..Welsh?
If you don't live here and interact with the folks in this country on a daily basis(not talking about online), I don't reckon you are qualified to make any sweeping generalizations about "downturns in American Culture"
As usual you talk with only a little knowledge.
I know the Welsh ate their young when the Romans arrived. Even the Romans were a little disturbed. You Druids still believe in a Welsh witch going by the name of Rhiannon?
"We would rather mourn than rejoice the existence of the DUP."
-A. Schopenhauer
Here's a perfect example: I start a thread to bring DUP back arguing that his absence has not made these forums any better and here's the case and point:
Out of blue, without any provocation or reason, Alan, Lamont and NCDrawl got into a pissing match, completely crapping this thread.
At least DUP was on topic. These forums haven't gotten ANY more civil since his ban. Bring him back.
As far as the gentlemen mentioned above, I would urge you to carry your discussion on in a different thread so that we may stay on topic here.
Thanks
That's not the case, Alex. We placed the ban on DUP to make this a better forum, and it has succeeded. I believe that allowing DUP back in would be a mistake. This is a very simple decision for me: I only have to think about his negative influence on the recent CES 2009 blog.
So, to answer your question: No.
How has his ban made these forums better? I just gave an example after example as to how his absence has made little to no difference to the civility of the forums.
I fail to grasp as to how he is any different from any other negative influence on this board? How is his crap any worse than JV's? How has his absence make these forums better?
It's certainly your prerogative to allow or disallow him on these forums, but if you're going to have a policy, let's have a clear one and apply it uniformly.