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without being able use it, titanized, frozen, and sell it after a couple months, finding the whole idea of using a turntable today utterly stupid?? Having to stand up to flip the disc or to change the track every 5 minutes.. telling yourself that MF is a fool, Stereophile finished..

No, and I cannot imagine ever being so hardheaded and silly to put good money on something and determine it's useless without ever trying it out? Then posting about it- well that's just weird!

Ever get the feeling you need to find something more fullfilling and productive to do with your spare time?

How about...actually posting something that CONTRIBUTES to this forum the next time you start a thread? Maybe? Can it be that hard?

Hey Grosse: I think the guys at the model railroading forum could use some of your expert advice, maybe you should give them a try for a while.

tom

So what did you buy? Why do you not want to use it?

I had similar thoughts about my Tube DAC. Seemed a bit paradoxical until I hooked it up, turned it on, and turned out the lights to listen. Then I forgot all about such triviality.

Has it occurred to you that maybe those of us who like vinyl are not lazy enough to write off an entire format because we have to get up to flip the record every 20 minutes?! How fatigued are you, man?

Secondly, I buy records worth hearing all the way through. I have no need to change the track.

A $5000 preamp would be great, but I don't need one to enjoy analog. I have a Rega Brio and am saving for a P3-24 (both Stereophile Class C, and I concur). I'm very much looking forward to listening to them together in my apartment.

Where I live, vinyl is still generally cheaper than CDs, and there is a tremendous number of titles from which to choose, many of which have never been released on CD. If we are supposedly the sort of people who love music, my question is this: How could Stereophile NOT recommend investing in a turntable? The technology is not stagnant, but rather continues to improve. With access to so much music, I'm going to have trouble not overdrawing my account on records.

Few things are more relaxing or pleasurable to me than the crackle of the stylus first making contact with the groove as I'm sitting down on the sofa.

I don't care that you don't like analog. You're entitled not to like it. In fact, I encourage you only to spend money on things that are enjoyable to you. Records are enjoyable to ME. Please give your rhetoric a rest, GF, and go listen to some music.

Sorry, Buddha; I fed the troll.

P.S.

I never thought I would be nostalgic for DUP.

Not everyone started collecting recordings after 1982. I have just over one thousand vinyl LPs, not an extremely large collection by audiophile standards, and I plan on listening to all of them again. I do not plan on spending ten to sixteen thousand dollars to replace them with CDs. To answer your question, Grosse Fatigue, no, I have never bought a new turntable and not used it. I did buy one and return it shortly thereafter because I didn't like it. And by the way, my best LPs equal the sound quality of my best SACDs on my system.

"So what did you buy?"

you ducked the question, are you a politician in real life? aside from that, i thought this was your best post. we LP lovers may not agree with you, but you made you points clearly, if petulently. well done.

tom

those sound like nice units, probably worth some good coin. are you going to sell them or just hang onto them for old time's sake?

tom

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They are like Proust's madeleine to me. Sometimes I turn them on, stare at the two platters moving, no vinyl, and they take me back 40-30 years ago in time . . .

Evocative image.

I need to try this some time in addition to actually playing LP's.

I dunno- your approach sounds entirely too OCD to me. Just throw a record on there and play it! I've been loving records for nearly 30 years and never have gotten so finicky with it. Adjust the arm height? Not even Michael Fremer recommends doing that with every record- just set it to a nice middle level and you're done. Different arms or carts for mono or stereo- no need and how many monos do you really have anyway?

It's just really not that much trouble my friend. A simple dry brush cleaning, a quick clamp down and you're good to go. So after 20 minutes you have to change the side-- not that big a deal. A little chair to stereo exercise isn't so bad. And getting expensive phono amps is not a requirement either when there are many affordable, excellent ones out there.

Now I know I won't be really getting you to reconsider your stance, but as a vinyl lover I don't want newbies thinking that it's anywhere nearly as complicated or troublesome as you've presented it. That attitude, if applied to food, would get you eating TV dinners every night! Sometimes life is about actually interacting with it a little. Of course, Proust never really understood that either...

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They are like Proust's madeleine to me. Sometimes I turn them on, stare at the two platters moving, no vinyl, and they take me back 40-30 years ago in time . . .

Evocative image.

I need to try this some time in addition to actually playing LP's.

Well, that's certainly the best way to enjoy Edith Piaf LP's!

This situation sounds like a case of ennui progressing to grosse fatigue. Ennui gone bad!

Maybe some fine Burgundy could put Grosse back avoir de l'entrain and add back a little joie de vivre.

Either that, or we have another vinyl hating audiophile who needs to spread his unhappiness.

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Ennui gone bad!

It's difficult to imagine the "desire for desires" getting into too much trouble.

(Love the Piaf reference)

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I am going to say something petulant again. Piaf? You are not serious. I can't stand Piaf. Piaf is for exportation, it is for american consumption, just like Maurice Chevalier. It is really low class. In the 16eme arrondissement in Paris they always much preferred Bessie Smith, Nina Simone, Ella, anything but Piaf.

Ah, then we agree on something!

Now, about your love of Neil Diamond...

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I can't stand Piaf. Piaf is for exportation, it is for american consumption, just like Maurice Chevalier. It is really low class. In the 16eme arrondissement in Paris they always much preferred Bessie Smith, Nina Simone, Ella, anything but Piaf.

I am always amused that some Frenchmen can be so derisive of pedestrian American taste, then adopt our artists, as if we don't know who they are! We didn't pull your ass out of The Big One just so you could cult-worship Jerry Lewis, did we? If only we'd have known... Okay, mayonnaise and the kissing thing do cover a lot of sins.

GF, Absolutely nothing! Just my poor attempt at irony. RV

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Now, about your love of Neil Diamond...

He is a man in full, he is big, he wears a Rolex. Wilson should use him in their advertising.

Wilson?

Non.

Maybe Jadis or Cabasse.

For Wilson it must be a closely mic'd female - Amanda McBroom or Patricia Barber.

Where I grew up, we had a spectaculary named local girl who wanted to be a big time jazz singer, her name was Trudy Ball - so all my friends who took French found the phonetic equivalency in French of her name as a reason to celebrate her.

I think she eventually married Pierre d'Encoule.

Buddha,

Any chance you could revisit your turntable thread to add comments for that category of listener that likes to stare at the platter spinning (no vinyl)?

Inclusiveness is good thing after all!

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Meditation is a higher form of intelligence. One can play a vinyl in his head without leaving his couch or one can hit the remote control and play internet music while staring at his turntable spinning.

Could one maybe log onto the internet in his head and post without actually coming here?

Meditation being a higher form of intelligence and all.

Essentially, for the past few years, my turntable (cover) has been a place to hold my immediate round of CD's off the floor, so I can easily access them.

Very sad.

I'm about to put my MFA Proto 'Venusian' pre-amp back into service. It is a three chassis unit, with dual mono line section and phono section Power Supplies. Ouch. Over 40lbs of transformers, etc.

A tube preamp that makes the lights go dim, when you turn it on? You better believe it! I love it! Does it get any better? I don't think so.

A 4-shelf rack, and there's room for only the preamp and a turntable. It makes me giddy. All dials turned to twelve!

Hardcore, dudes!

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Meditation is a higher form of intelligence. One can play a vinyl in his head without leaving his couch or one can hit the remote control and play internet music while staring at his turntable spinning.

Could one maybe log onto the internet in his head and post without actually coming here?

Meditation being a higher form of intelligence and all.

I know I know! More: one doesn't try to make a "bon mot" in French when he doesn't write french. And gets irritated for the lesson de choses. In Paris in certain cercles they would say that you are rather plain, you have no social grace.

So, the answer to my query would be, "No."

I was hoping for more (less) from you.

In American audio circles, we are mostly too polite to describe your type.

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I can't stand Piaf. Piaf is for exportation, it is for american consumption, just like Maurice Chevalier. It is really low class. In the 16eme arrondissement in Paris they always much preferred Bessie Smith, Nina Simone, Ella, anything but Piaf.

I am always amused that some Frenchmen can be so derisive of pedestrian American taste, then adopt our artists, as if we don't know who they are! We didn't pull your ass out of The Big One just so you could cult-worship Jerry Lewis, did we? If only we'd have known... Okay, mayonnaise and the kissing thing do cover a lot of sins.

rvance, the french did not create mayonnaise. The Spanish did. It was 1st made on the isle of Mahon, hence Mahonesa. The french, as always, try to take credit for the good things they had the luck to steal.

The french are lousy cooks, and they don't bathe. Their arrogance is rooted in their knowledge that they are culturally inferior to their latin cousins: the Spanish and Italians. :-) Please note smiley, I like the french even though they are inferior. :-) :-)

BTW I have many french friends who are also pro musicians and they love Edith Piaf. GrossF is incorrect on that score

You might like the movie : "I'm not there" about Bob Dylan.
Many different actors portray his many different persona. A very creative movie which captures the surrealism of Dylan with it's approach.
I just saw it with my 15 year old son who is beginning to get into Dylan. ( the same age I was when I got into Dylan)

BTW, thanks for not taking offense at the french jokes , I must admit to taking very good California wines whenever my French friends invite me to dinner, they are finally admitting we have some very good wine indeed.

However, I would never turn down a Chateau Margaux or Chassagne Montrachet ( please excuse the spelling)

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You have fabulous Cabernets in this country, pure unadulterated very high in alchool content cabernets. It is very hard to get back to lower in alchool content regular French Bordeaux after that but I still tend to prefer French Grand Crus, like a Mouton or a Margaux to a high priced Cabernet. In general, except for those Grand Crus Classe, it makes no sense buying French red wine in the US.

KBK- you have inspired this thread! In 1975 in Bel Air, Ca. at a great palatial estate (servant

I was at a friend-of-a-friend's apartment and listening to one of those cable music stations, playing through the TV speakers. I remember thinking that it sounded okay, and promptly concluded that I had had enough to drink.

Wow. What a thread. Have I ever bought a turntable and just stared at it? No. Somehow, poorly or well, I got the thing set up and plugged in, and played music on it. And listened to the music.

California Cabernets are generally too sweet, especially over the past, say, 5 or so years. The French wines, classified or not, have the salt of the earth in them. I would rather drink a $10 Vin Ordinaire than a $300 California Coppola...

And, yes, wine, like music, is a personal thing...

But don't just stare at that turntable -- plug it in and make some music!

This is turning into very expensive French Spa mud slinging.

About $50 a handful.

I don't like overwhelming alcohol presence, but I tend to prefer wine that's a bit "robust". That being said, I don't have much experience with French wines, so I don't really have an opinion on the matter. I've had surprisingly good experiences with reds from Washington State, which have been full-bodied, and often more affordable than their Californian contemporaries.

wine and watts go tehgether.
Gotta have a lota grape teh get high enough teh listen teh real music played at real levels wit teh realest speakers: Legacy.

Legacy and AVA designers design all there stuff drunk on manichevezt, no stinkin cali or french wimpy wine has enough watt power teh do teh trick.

Ah, I prefer to open my brain instead of shutting it off. Therefore, 'combustibles' are 'high' on my list of items of consumption for audio sessions. Alcohol-not. Brewskis? Yes!

There can be only one!

Tusker!

(A Kenyan 'pilsner-ish' brew, from Kenya)

Think Evian, as a beer.

Too keep me away from my favorite consumption, imported brewkis, or to keep me from never making it any further into Germany than the airport lounge (real beer!) to get to the ever more real beers.... I have been drinking San Pelegrino every day (two or so) for the past year. The empty cases are starting to stack up around me like cordwood. To give you and idea how bad I am, last time I was in Germany, I gained 1 lb a day. From the beer. uummmmmmm. Real German Pilsners...mmmmmm.

Thirty years ago, listening to the Quads on a hot summer day in SoCal was slightly better with some Anchor Steam beer from San Francisco. It was our first awareness of a microbrew. Up here in the far north by the Oregon border, if we are lucky enough to get a hot day we like some Pyramid Apricot Ale or Hefe Weizen with a slice of lemon- very California. Red Tail Ale from Mendocino Brewing is also nice. Maybe some Mirror Pond Pale Ale from Deschutes Brewery (central Oregon) or their Black Butte Porter when it starts getting colder. In the winter rains we like Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome Ale (very rich and English). Their Oatmeal Stout also warms the cockles of your heart, whatever the hell those are. I certainly don't drink like I did in my youth, but the memories are fun.

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The problem with american beers, microbrew or not, Mexican beers, Japanese beers etc is that they are all carbonized beers, not naturally fermented beers like the Germans and the French and the beers from Belgium.

All the beers I mentioned are naturally fermented, so your statement is puzzling. Even lowly Budweiser is naturally fermented.

I'm with you on this one... plug the TT in and hear some music.

BTW, the December issue of Sound and Vision shows a XMAS wish list of their staff. The editor Mr. Mettler concurs with Ken Pohlmann on Ken's wish for a turntable, and listening to vinyl! So they aren't going to get a TT and just look at it.