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FredT300B
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Blu Ray Ads

I counted five pages (p19-22 by Sony Entertainment, p25 by Sony Pictures) of Blu Ray ads in the July issue. What are the implications for high end audio? Any predictions?

CECE
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

Five less pages of audio ads this month? Blu-Ray is high end audio, just with pictures added. Just like tv is really radio with pictures.

CECE
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

Do you think next month will have an ad for Blu-Ray specific wires? you know ones frozen and reheated to just the correct Blu-Ray tempertures...Cus' audio signals need 800 according to a recent magic wire ad...blu-Ray is what temp? Of course blu is a higher COLOR TEMP than the OLD DVD analog laser color RED.....does that mean system synergy, what a lovely audionut buzz wurd, needs to be COLDER in heat temp, for a higher COLOR temp(K)? Wire, it ain't for just making things connect, it's a COMPONENT!!!!

FredT300B
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

My question drew two cynical responses about the audio industry in general, but they didn't address the question. So I'll rephrase it in greater detail.

It's clear to me that Sony's strategy for introducing Blu Ray is focused on the mass market consumer and not the high end audiophile. Better sound is mentioned almost as an afterthought. I believe this is a sound business strategy because the sales volume and dollar potential is in the mass market entertainment business and not in high end audio. On the surface this doesn't look good for audio, but that might not be the case at all. The coming mega-marketing campaign almost guarantees that Blu Ray will succeed, because it satisfies the consumer's need for clearer pictures, more data on a disk, greater versatility, etc. and it satisfies the entertainment industry's need for a medium that's copy protected (or so they hope).

So if it does succeed and $100 Blu Ray players become as ubiquitous as DVD players are today, what are the opportunities for high end audio? Will some niche recording companies (i.e. Reference Recordings, Chesky, etc.) begin producing Blu Ray audio disks? Will high end equipment manufacturers begin producing high quality universal players that include the Blu Ray format? I'm asking this question because the Blu Ray format appears to have huge potential for influencing high end audio, yet I have no idea whether it will have any role at all in our hobby. Imagine you are a high end manufacturer, and suddenly everybody's CD/SACD player is no longer the best digital technology, and almost every audiophile is planning to buy a new player that includes the Blu Ray format - how do you spell "sales potential"?

It would be good if some of the Stereophile writers who witnessed the SACD rollout from the beginning, along with some Stereophile readers, would offer their opinions about whether Blu Ray will influence high end audio and how that might happen.

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Re: Blu Ray Ads


Quote:
It would be good if some of the Stereophile writers who witnessed the SACD rollout from the beginning, along with some Stereophile readers, would offer their opinions about whether Blu Ray will influence high end audio and how that might happen.

I am not sure either Blu-ray or HD DVD will have any impact. Both are loaded up with consumer-unfriendly DRM that will prohibit open-ended experimentation; neither offers any advantage as an audio-only medium over SACD or DVD-A except longer playing time, and that is a disadvantage to the content providers.

I would be interested in hearing from someone what the advantages are of these media in an audio-only context.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

PS: to address the point made in another post, these ads do not displace ads from audio manufacturers.

CECE
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

SACD is still the way to go for top audio fidelity. Looks like the only thing Blu-Ray is, is more storage for HD VIDEO, and protected like SACD so you can't do digital copies. That surely was to apease the content makers. SACD satisifies high qulaity AUDIO. Now, when they release the inabilty to do DSD direct recording, so DSD copies can be made, not just the Hybrid CD layer, even though the Hybrid CD layer sounds much better than the CD version. DSD also enhances the Hybrid CD layer. Then Blu-Ray becomes the computer storage standard, as you know the DVD PATENTS must be running low, so Philips always introduces the next gen, it keeps the money stream, it is business ya' know. Speaking of SACD, why don't they just make all discs SACD/DSD? HYBRID, so it all improves, can make copies for car use etc., I don't take originals in the car. Then as "regular" CD players die, people automaticly move up to SACD players, the mfgs could get an extra $50 for each machine having them all SACD capable.Since SACD/CD plays backwards comaptible, . Don't know why they ain't pushing SACD conversions. Doubt if there is the end of SACD, they can't kill the vinyl LP...with all the improvements made in fidelity and convience of play. But now mfgs. better relabel their "universal" machines. If it can't do Blu-Ray, or HDDVD it ain't truly "universal" now am it? What's the next color after Blu?, even higher freq., higher capacity. Then they can remaster 44.1kHz, into DSD, then into Blu-Ray? I'm sure Philips and sony make the mastering equipment also, or license the technology, just like for CD and DVD, SACD. I still haven't watched all my LASERDISCS!!!

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Blu Ray Ads


Quote:
I would be interested in hearing from someone what the advantages are of these media in an audio-only context.


The only advantage is that they can accommodate more channels IF that is deemed useful. However, their extended program times, DRM and costs are disadvantages. As with other media, the audiophile market is not even an afterthought. I can only hope that enterprising and innovative folks will find a way to piggy-back on to this for high quality audio. Otherwise, we will look back on the SACD/DVD-A era, with nostalgia and annoyance, as the Golden Age of quality audio.

Kal

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Re: Blu Ray Ads

JA asked:

Quote:
I would be interested in hearing from someone what the advantages are of these media in an audio-only context.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Dolby HD or Dolby TrueHD will now offer CD quality audio, which will be of great benefit to all those Concert/Music DVD's, which judging from the amount of shelf space they are allotted at the mass market chain stores are apperently doing some brisk sales.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear one of your DVD picks for "Records To Die For" in CD quality Dolby HD, Mr. Atkinson?

RG

Kal Rubinson
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Re: Blu Ray Ads


Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but Dolby HD or Dolby TrueHD will now offer CD quality audio, which will be of great benefit to all those Concert/Music DVD's, which judging from the amount of shelf space they are allotted at the mass market chain stores are apperently doing some brisk sales.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear one of your DVD picks for "Records To Die For" in CD quality Dolby HD, Mr. Atkinson?


The problem is not the technical potential of the medium but the economies of the market. If one is interested in concert videos, as opposed to just audio, the medium may be fine. The problem is that all that shelf space for DVD concerts/music represents only a tiny selection of the musical repertoire.

Kal

Editor
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Re: Blu Ray Ads


Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice to hear one of your DVD picks for "Records To Die For" in CD quality Dolby HD, Mr. Atkinson?

For surround, yes, Dolby HD does offer CD quality in all 5 channels to accompany the video content. But a high proportion of concert DVDs already offer "CD quality" linear PCM left/right tracks, which, for this 2-channel listener at least, renders the improvement moot.

I had understood the original poster's question to concern the new media as dedicated audio carriers. And in that context, neither offers any advantage over SACD or DVD-A along with some disadvantages.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

mikeymad
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

Reading up on SACD and the like, it turned out that I knew less about it than I thought. Years ago I heard a demo at the Stereophile show from Sony about their 'new' very high sampling 1-bit recordings. I remember that it was direct 'something'. It turns out that this is the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) that is being used in the SACD's that I listen and love so much.

So, my point.

Most of these are being put out with DST (Direct Stream Transfer) to combat the storage problems with the current disks (4.7Gb). Well this does add a lot of extra processing and un-coding that I feel may not have to be there. So with Blu-Ray's much bigger size, they may be able to take advantage of the format to release a pure DSD layer on the disk.

Sonic difference? The DST is suppose to be lossless (no bits dropped). But, I don't know. It would be less processing of the signal, and I don't think that it can be too bad for you.

That way they could take advantage of a current format. As with most technologies these days it is a 'video first' advancement. I don't see a new ultra high resolution audio format coming out of this. It would be nice, but I just don't see it. It will (I hope) also be highly used by the computer industry. Then I would be able to put every photo I have ever taken on a single disk..... cool


Cheers

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Re: Blu Ray Ads

Hi there --

This is one topic that puts me into that "ray-o-sunshine" category, because I do not anticipate that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will offer audiophiles much, if anything at all. These products are all dressed up to appeal to visual senses, protect the film industry (imagine those four words in the largest and boldest font that exists), sell more DVD's and maybe, just maybe, sell more HT receivers and speakers.

I was tempted for a few days to consider jumping on this bandwagon, only because Blu-Ray is offering The Fifth Element. Then common sense grabbed me again as I stared at my usually idle universal player, and the whopping 15 or so hi-rez discs I have purchased.

My listening revolves around CD and music DVD, and I have managed to build up a good library over time. I just can't see myself gettting excited (again)over another adventure with formats. I managed to avoid CD's until about 1991, so I am sure I can weather this one out.

CECE
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

Back in the middle to late 60's Captain Kirk and Spock used non moving storage devices to have the entire history of the universe at their button push.....no spinning discs, no jitter, and robust storage, like moving at warp speed and stuff and not a single date bit dropped, Blu-Ray is not such a big deal, I want everything about everything, every song ever recorded on one memory stick, then'll I'll jump on that format...maybe in another 5 years for teh NEXT format, PHILIPS is probably working on it already, Sulu is a guest researcher in Eindhoven.....what kind of wires did they use on ENTERPRISE? Live long and prosper, long enough to see about 5 more formats......until the Final Format Frontier!!!!

bwkendall
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Re: Blu Ray Ads

I never really thought about it from that perspective, but you have piqued my curiosity. I wonder what kind of wire they used on Seven of Nine? I might want to buy some.

To infinity, and beyond!

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