Value is relative. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. The high pricing may just be due to a free market economy and what the market will bear. There could be years of research and development costs that the manufacturer is trying to recoup. The process of making these things might be expensive. Why do 200 dollar Nike sneakers that cost 2 dollars to manufacture sell for so much? The costs of advertising factor into it, and there are people willing to pay. Only an individual can decide if something is a ripoff or not. There are plenty of cable choices out there.

Joe - I wasn't suggesting you were a newbie or calling into question your "audiophile-ness" or knowledge. I just don't think there's a clear cut answer. I really do think value is relative. Perhaps, you or I can't justify an expenditure like that, but, an $8000 pair of speaker cables might fall within the often prescribed 10-15% of budget for cables based on system cost for someone with WAVAC amps and a Caliburn turntable. In the context of that system, is it unreasonable?

I've put very expensive power cords on something as modest as a Creek integrated amp, and I heard a worthwhile improvement. The price ratio looked stupid, but the sound wasn't. I was able to justify the expense because I gained more pleasure from my system and also knew I could still use the cord when my amp improved.

Some cables use proprietary techniques to fill micro gaps in conductors with other metals. These cables are insanely expensive. Do we have the means to do this home? Unlikely. If these manufacturers can sell the stuff, good for them. Is it worth the expense? I'm sure that would be a personal call.

My point simply was, there's something for everybody at various price points. Trying to justify being reasonable in high-end is probably a waste of time anyway. What we go through (breaking down walls and such) couldn't be justified by anybody outside our hobby.

Get out the flamethrower. I have given this subject a lot of thought over the last couple of years, and even more so since the review of a $90,000 turntable.

I have talked to the owners of several cable companies, I know the sources will be immediately discredited, as will I, but I got some interesting information.

I don't know much about cable theory or design, but I know if it were that easy more people would be doing it. The charge is often leveled that everyone buys wire from a couple of companies and puts their own wrapper on it. The issue I have with that accussation is that cables measure differently. If everyone truly bought their cables from only a couple of manufacturers that would not happen to the degree it does. Dielectrics affect measurement, but there still should not be the disparity one encounters.

Most of my cable is from one of those companies who charge and get big dollars for their cables. Cable companies employ a number of 'skilled' workers to build their cables. I have been told by sources I know to be reliable that better cables can take an entire day to build, and they use expensive materials. Several of my own cables employ a silver/gold/copper amalgum. I don't know how this is done, but there must be some effort and cost involved in this process.

I own an $8000 cable and I still marvel that it is possible,even though I know this company has cables that cost many times more.

Buildings cost money, equipment, and materials cost money, research costs money, employees want to get paid, take vacations, and visit the doctor. I don't know if that adds up to an $8000 cable, but I have noticed that people have no trouble justifying their own expense, value, or costs, but they are not nearly as cheritable towards the expenses of others.

It still doesn't add up when a person can buy an amp for $5000, or 8000, amps are very complex in comparison to cables, but I have also experienced situations where cable made as much difference as would a new amp, or other piece of electronics.

How's that for a clear, concise answer?

That is way too rational and well said. You can always tell when something is over-priced; people don't buy it.

Cus' it's all NONSENSE!!!! Pet rocks also sold remember them. If you look in pro audio catalogs from sweetwater, musicans friend,markertek, ain't got no magic wires. Just heavy duty, meant to last, remain connected, don't fall apart, suited for intended use. CONsumer audio is a playground for marketing BS. These wire marketeers know they are selling to the unknowing, uneducated, basiclly gulliable fools. I particulary love the "audio grade" wiring devices, too bad NEMA has no such listings. Neither does UL, ETL or any other org. CONsumer audio, where the BS is bigger than most speakers. Which bi furcated magic twisted double helix, wrapped cord is in your system today? How come most of these magic wires are not UL listed either? Hmmm, oh, this is CONsumer aduio, we don't need no stinkin' standards of safety, NEC, never heard of that.

I use speaekr wire 12 gauge SoundKing, $29.99 100 ft....Let's see, and some gold plated RCA, so they don't oxidize over time. no magic twists. some wires could cost as much as $4-$6 for a 6 foot RCA/RCA.... Some XLR from my Rane to a Rane balance buddy XLR may have cost $14 each...from again no magic twists. pro stuff so it don't fall apart. I may not have enough reaveling system since I only use Legacy Whispers and 4 mono Vanalstine/Hafler about 4200W RMS, and a VanAlstine Ultra Hybrid pre, and some Ultra Hybrid phase inverters to get teh VanAlstine OmegaStar eX mono, maybe I need better speakers? Since I can't hear a difference between 12 gauge nice flexible, never turned green in 10 years wire. I tried some magic stuff, got my money back, all nonsense. Is the problem in my speakers, my electronics, or lack of being BS'd?

I listened to a pair of Whispers. Dude, you got ripped off. I can't hear any difference between the Whispers and a the speakers in my Toyota. I only paid $20.00 for my Toyota speakers (got a really good deal at the flea market) and picked up a 200 watt amplifer for $29.99 while I was there.

It's magic, baby. It's the real deal and I don't even have to have a home stereo anymore. I crank that bad boy up and open my house door and the sound envelops me like teh Real Deal .

If your Whispers and Holsteins aren't very old, you might be able to get your money back and not have to settle for mid-fi sound.

Flea Markets! That's where the real Hi-Fi is and you don't have to depend on these half-baked, bad breath retailers trying to sell you the voodoo in a box stuff. Dup, I always hate seeing people get ripped-off like you did. Bummer.

So much for sitting on your hands, hey Monty?

DUP...gives us a break. By now we are all WAY too familiar with your system. I felt surely you would tire of repeatedly listing all that, ummm....stuff and dem der watts, but...and we all know your position on wire and conditioners and outlets. PULEEZE!

RG

Yes, I tried sitting on one hand and typing with the other, but I could hardly contain my new-found enthusiasm for real hi fi.

Perhaps if Dup can recognize absurdity when he reads it, he can recognize it when he writes it.