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JIMV
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Rediscovering the Faith

I enjoyed Steve Guttenberg bit in vinyl...My only qualm is with his caveat "when you start listening to a first class analog front end"...

Where? When? I have never heard a vinyl setup that is as good as my very modest digital one, mine certainly isn't.

I would love to hear such a setup but, as far as I know, no one in Boise Idaho has such a thing...

Sigh...

New topic...when is Stereophile going to review PS audios new front ends...By the time they get around to it the technology will be obsolete...

FSonicSmith
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Pretzel logic

I loved the opening foray of the piece, since I too am upgrading to a VPI Classic from a sub-$1000 table. But that said, I was perplexed by the conclusion, in which Mr. Guttenberg suggested that the non-believers dip their toes with an inexpensive AT pre-amp and budget table. Didn't Mr. Guttenberg suggest in the opening of his piece that a mid-tier (if not better) Linn LP12 had failed to inspire any enthuiasm for vinyl? Why invite others to experience the same malaise if not bitter disappointment? Now as it happens, my teenage son has a Music Hall MMF2.2 with a Sumiko Oyster cartridge and I have been listening to it while I wait for my VPI to arrive, having already sold my previous table. The sound is good, but not great. Very dynamic and organic sounding, but not very detailed and fairly course. Flaws in the vinyl are seemingly maximized rather than minimized. My phono stage is quite good-an Simaudio Moon LP5.3, so the MMF2.2 is being given a better chance to show it's stuff than it would most likely normally get in most systems. Could someone fall in love with vinyl all over again with the MMF2.2? I think the answer is yes, and yet certainly Mr. Guttenberg suggested in the introduction that keeping the enthusiasm going required a change of table to something more dynamic. I can only surmise that he meant to say the vinyl is addictive in general, regardless of table choice (wihin reason and assuming a generally good quality table), but that in his case a change of table was the cure to his slight boredom with the medium.

tom collins
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Re: Pretzel logic

my experience went like this:

70s-80s - sanyo direct drive turntable, who knows what mm cartridge, plugged into the phono socket on the preamp and later receiver.

07 - thought to try vinyl again, got rega p2, grado red cart, plugged into arcam integrated. at the time, dealer had nottingham horizon se on display too. rega - good, nottingham - much better, cheaped out, bought rega. enjoyed for about a year, couldn't stand any more (knowing how much better it could be),
08 - went and bought nottingham with benz silver high output mc. plugged into arcam - much better. dealer sold rega for me
09 traded benz cart for clearaudio aurum beta s cartridge. incredible improvement.
09 traded clearaudio for benz wood body low output mc and lukasheck phono pre. so this is what everyone was talking about.
10 bought nottingham spacedeck - tried modded rega 250 arm that came with the horizon - excellent, deep, black sound floor.
10 bought mission (jelco) tone arm - faster, maybe better, still deciding.

motto: watch out when you dip your little toe in the vinyl waters. (horizon se for sale)

tom

RGibran
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Re: Pretzel logic

That article could easily have been written about the joys of rediscovering vinyl without the mention of any manufacturers. It is clear to this reader, after the mention of a particular manufacture no less than 7 times in the article, as well as in the table of contents, what this article was about.

FSonicSmith
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Re: Pretzel logic

Well, your comment made me re-read the column for the fifth or sixth time and I can only presume you are referring to VPI though I counted six appearances of the brand name and not seven (I won't argue-you might be correct at 7-I skimmed fast). VPI does not advertise to my knowledge. It seems to me that the praise for the Classic is nothing more than praise for a fantastic product at a fantastic price though I am clearly biased in that all that praise prompted me to buy one sound un-heard. Or am I missing the point of your post.

Editor
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Re: Pretzel logic


Quote:

Quote:
It is clear to this reader, after the mention of a particular manufacture no less than 7 times in the article, as well as in the table of contents, what this article was about.

Well, your comment made me re-read the column for the fifth or sixth time and I can only presume you are referring to VPI though I counted six appearances of the brand name and not seven (I won't argue-you might be correct at 7-I skimmed fast). VPI does not advertise to my knowledge.

I don't think VPI has ever advertised in Stereophile. VPI also has the dubious honor of being the only company ever to complain about being featured on the magazine's cover :-)


Quote:
It seems to me that the praise for the Classic is nothing more than praise for a fantastic product at a fantastic price...

It was just that.


Quote:
Or am I missing the point of your post.

You have to understood the logic used by rgibran and others:

1) If the company mentioned in an article is an advertiser, the magazine is rewarding the company for that advertising and is to be condemned.

2) If the company mentioned is not an advertiser, like VPI for example, then the magazine is using the mention as bait to get them to advertise and is to be condemned.

3) If a company is neither an advertiser nor is mentioned in an article, then the magazine is punishing them for not being an advertiser and is to be condemned.

In other words, the rgibrans of this world twist themselves into pretzels to avoid admitting that something written in a magazine might just be an honestly reported opinion :-)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

JIMV
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Re: Rediscovering the Faith

I have to take my initial post back...yesterday, after a long and hard look, I listened to a $30K system with a good vinyl front end...Without a doubt that system sounded better than my modest system, by a good bit.

I was impressed.

FSonicSmith
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Re: Pretzel logic

John (I hope you don't mind my addressing you as John);
I feel honored to have you respond in agreement to something I posted. I have been an avid reader of S'Phile for a long time and have always enjoyed your work. I believe we share an interest in wine (as I do with the previous owner, Larry Archibald, whom I have had the pleasure to meet at Hospice du Rhone in Paso Robles CA from time to time, but I digress...) and something I have learned from wine related forums is that often the host gets too close to the subjects ("subjects" in each sense, the topics and the humans involved) and too sensitive, with retorts that only bring the host down to the level of the anonymous individual who has no doubt been baiting the host and getting the host's goat for a long time. As just one easy example, the most respected wine reviewer in the World-at least in the eyes of the Bordelais who set their first tranche prices by his ratings-from our very own Monkton, MD has said things I am sure he regrets on the board he hosts. Regardless of whether he was correct or incorrect (and let's just agree he was correct), the goat-er was happy he got the goat of the goat-ee and the host looked bad in the process. Please forgive me in advance for deeming myself up to dispensing advice to someone of your stature and intelligence, as I truly have committed more transgressions in what were supposed to be civil net forums than you could ever commit if you tried.

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